Agora Forums
 
   
1 of 3
1
P’s and Q’s of Spelling
Posted: 08 November 2009 09:23 AM   [ Ignore ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  10177
Joined  2008-04-02

I guess we all get pretty far afield in discussion which are much ado about nothing.
Maybe sticking to a topic more as the thread identifies it?
I am the worst offender, I suspect.
So I offer in this thread:
WHY DOES THE LETTER ‘Q’ ALWAYS HAVE TO BE FOLLOWED BY THE LETTER ‘U’?
In other languages Q is often like a “K”: ie, the country of Qatar, where I think the Q is more like a G, true?
How do they say it Doug?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 November 2009 05:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  10177
Joined  2008-04-02

Returning to forum.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 November 2009 09:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  10177
Joined  2008-04-02

edit

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 November 2009 03:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1900
Joined  2009-04-21

QUATAR?

 Signature 

Musing lazily on love..♥

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 November 2009 09:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  10177
Joined  2008-04-02

There is no U in it: Qatar.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 November 2009 02:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7309
Joined  2007-08-21

This is a simplified explanation of Q and QU (because I don’t know Phoenician or Hebrew), but it makes sense to me.

According to etymology.com:

Q: 16th letter of the classical Roman alphabet, from the Phoenician equivalent of Heb. koph, which was used for the more guttural of the two “k” sounds in Semitic. The letter existed, but was little used and not alphabetized, in Gk.; the stereotypical connection with -u- began in Latin. Anglo-Saxon scribes adopted the habit at first, but later used spellings with cw- or cu-. The qu- pattern returned to Eng. with the Norman Conquest. Scholars use -q- alone to transliterate Sem. koph (e.g. Quran, Qatar, Iraq). 

Apparently, the two sounds (roughly k and kw) were transcribed as k, c, and q and kw, cw, and qu, depending on the language, the era, and the scribe (Latin favoring qu and Anglo-Saxon favoring kw and cw. As the influence of Latin became more prominent after 1066, the English language inherited that preference. (Note that kw and cw in spelling are all but non-existent.)

The confusing part comes with words like pique and oblique, which have the qu spelling but the k instead of kw sound. You can either remember that most of these are French, that there is a similarity between qu, gu, and ck (all of the second letters help retain the hard consonant sound) or spell them with a qu just because your chances of being right are much greater,

 Signature 

Ars longa, vita brevis

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 November 2009 03:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1900
Joined  2009-04-21

Good research! it is qute!

 Signature 

Musing lazily on love..♥

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 November 2009 03:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7309
Joined  2007-08-21

Thanque you.

 Signature 

Ars longa, vita brevis

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 November 2009 06:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  10177
Joined  2008-04-02
saparris - 10 November 2009 02:55 PM

This is a simplified explanation of Q and QU (because I don’t know Phoenician or Hebrew), but it makes sense to me.

According to etymology.com:

Q: 16th letter of the classical Roman alphabet, from the Phoenician equivalent of Heb. koph, which was used for the more guttural of the two “k” sounds in Semitic. The letter existed, but was little used and not alphabetized, in Gk.; the stereotypical connection with -u- began in Latin. Anglo-Saxon scribes adopted the habit at first, but later used spellings with cw- or cu-. The qu- pattern returned to Eng. with the Norman Conquest. Scholars use -q- alone to transliterate Sem. koph (e.g. Quran, Qatar, Iraq). 

Apparently, the two sounds (roughly k and kw) were transcribed as k, c, and q and kw, cw, and qu, depending on the language, the era, and the scribe (Latin favoring qu and Anglo-Saxon favoring kw and cw. As the influence of Latin became more prominent after 1066, the English language inherited that preference. (Note that kw and cw in spelling are all but non-existent.)

The confusing part comes with words like pique and oblique, which have the qu spelling but the k instead of kw sound. You can either remember that most of these are French, that there is a similarity between qu, gu, and ck (all of the second letters help retain the hard consonant sound) or spell them with a qu just because your chances of being right are much greater,

 

Yes I read this.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 November 2009 06:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7309
Joined  2007-08-21

On etymology.quom or in a booque?

 Signature 

Ars longa, vita brevis

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 November 2009 09:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  10177
Joined  2008-04-02

the former, also in articles in   http://www.worldwidewords.org/index.htm

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 November 2009 09:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7309
Joined  2007-08-21

His next book should be on P. Then he could mind his P’s and Q’s.

 Signature 

Ars longa, vita brevis

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 November 2009 10:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  10177
Joined  2008-04-02

I believe he has one on that. Look deeper.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 November 2009 11:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7309
Joined  2007-08-21

I will.

On a related note, do you know this person?

Image Attachments
rbeard.jpg
 Signature 

Ars longa, vita brevis

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 November 2009 11:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  10177
Joined  2008-04-02

Obama’s grandmother on his great grandmother’s side?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 November 2009 01:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7309
Joined  2007-08-21

Could be, but it’s also Robert Beard (aka Dr. Language).

 Signature 

Ars longa, vita brevis

Profile
 
 
   
1 of 3
1
 
‹‹ Can You Read This?      lachrymose ››