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Posted: 02 August 2009 06:21 AM   [ Ignore ]
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I strongly believe that the majority of people seek this, some earlier than others.


1)[color=blue]This is just a reduced form of below, correct?
2)So, it cannot be labeled a phrase in the reduced form, correct?
3)The reduced from is better for both formal and informal writing, correct?[/color]

 

I strongly believe that the majority of people seek mid-altering substances, some (people seek this) earlier than others.

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Posted: 02 August 2009 07:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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I strongly believe that the majority of people seek this, some earlier than others.

This is just a reduced form of below, correct?
I think you may be taking the concept of reduction too far. Grammatical reduction, in one sense, is a stylistic device that writers use the make sentences clearer and more concise. In another sense, it is a way of analyzing sentences for correctness. In your example, I doubt that anyone would have written or spoken this sentence and then reduced it.  Most reduction takes place in the head, not on paper. Maybe you should say that the sentence below contains a “swollen” phrase.

So, it cannot be labeled a phrase in the reduced form, correct?
It’s a phrase. What else would you call a meaningful group of words that isn’t a clause?

The reduced from is better for both formal and informal writing, correct?

It’s different, not better. Everything depends on how a piece of writing hangs together stylistically. If you took the Magna Carta, The Sermon on the Mount, or the Declaration of Independence and reduced them grammatically, would they be better?

I strongly believe that the majority of people seek mind-altering substances, some (people seek this) earlier than others.

Glad you reduced this. Otherwise, you would have a comma splice. Also, this should be these.

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Posted: 02 August 2009 03:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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So, it cannot be labeled a phrase in the reduced form, correct?
It’s a phrase. What else would you call a meaningful group of words that isn’t a clause?

I strongly believe that the majority of people seek this, some earlier than others.


What type of phrase then? What’s the head of the phrase?

Some is a pronoun and earlier than others is modifying speak. Thus these two bits have no grammatical function together (adverbs don’t modify pronouns). THat’s why I considered missing words, because as it is, I can’t see them being one unit/phrase; it’s a pronoun plus adverb, which is not a phrase type. Do you see what I mean?


Thanks

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Posted: 02 August 2009 04:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Clearly, there are words missing. Some modifies the missing but understood word, people, which means—yes—the words in the phrase, some more than others, modify different components.

I understand your points. I just think that the only real reason to discuss reduction is when analyzing the grammar of a sentence after the fact. Writers just don’t think that way.

As for some more than others, it’s a phrase—a meaningful unit that isn’t a word or a clause.

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Posted: 02 August 2009 04:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Thanks. Glad to know we agree.

But you state that some is modifying people. I assumed it was a pronoun.

Also, you state the group of words is a phrase because it is meaningful. However, most definitions of a phrase state that they act as one part of speech. Since this isn’t the case, I thought it wasn’t a phrase, so I relunctantly mentioned how words have been omitted.

When words are omitted and the group of words remaning still keep the same part of speech, I see no point in mentioning what has been omitted. But if the part of speech is lost or changed, I see a point to at least consider them when discussing grammar on this forum… I just don’t want you to think that I ignore you when you say reductions are made in the mind. I do agree with this.

Thanks again. This was helpful.

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Posted: 02 August 2009 04:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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But you state that some is modifying people. I assumed it was a pronoun.

I have also heard words like some, few, many, etc. called adjective pronouns. Somebody somewhere probably calls them pronounish adjectives.

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Posted: 02 August 2009 05:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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adjective pronouns


Good point

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