Agora Forums
 
   
1 of 4
1
Run-on Sentence
Posted: 18 April 2009 05:42 PM   [ Ignore ]
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  98
Joined  2009-03-28

If your orchestra is hiring a soloist you haven’t heard of,

the chances are good that she’s fantastic.

Above sentence was to be good enough to be in a text of an English test in my country.
It seems to me a run-on sentence.

Could you stop the run and finish right?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 April 2009 07:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7341
Joined  2007-08-21

The sentence you posted is NOT a run-on sentence. A run-on sentence consists of two or more independent clauses without a conjunction (or the proper punctuation).

An example would be as follows:

My sister is planning to become a physician she has just been accepted to medical school.

Your sentence consists of a dependent clause (“If your orchestra is hiring a soloist you haven’t heard of”), followed by an independent clause (“the chances are good that she’s fantastic”). The subordinating conjunction “if” makes the first clause dependent.

Being grammatically correct and being wordy are two different things. The sentence you posted could be improved for clarity and readability. For example:

If your orchestra hires a soloist you never heard of, she’s probably fantastic.

Two independent clauses must be joined by a period, semicolon, or coordinating conjunction (and, or, nor, for, but, yet, so), or one of them must me made dependent by the addition of a subordinating conjunction or relative pronoun.

 Signature 

Ars longa, vita brevis

Profile
 
 
Posted: 20 April 2009 03:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  98
Joined  2009-03-28

I see. The reason why I thought the sentence in question was a case of run-on because I couldn’t make a connection between the main clause and the subordinate clause.
Maybe I got confused by the present progressive ‘is hiring’ and ‘the chances are’.

Your revived sentence gave a clear picture of the thought from the sentence; If your orchestra hires a soloist you never heard of, she’s probably fantastic.
Now I understand that the unknown soloist would be hired because she is fantastic.
Did I get it right?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 20 April 2009 04:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7341
Joined  2007-08-21

You’re right grammatically, although I think the sentence is intended to be humorous, suggesting that the person being addressed has a knowledge of music that is not sufficient enough to know who’s good and who isn’t.

 Signature 

Ars longa, vita brevis

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 April 2009 05:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  98
Joined  2009-03-28

Though I like your revived sentence because it is so clear and easy for me to understand and no doubt for other ESL person, someone who is not native English speaker but in English teaching position in Korea disagree with your opinion.

In order for me to have better position in the discussion related in that matter with other person, I want you to read the whole context and allow me to have a second opinion from you, if there is any from the whole context this time. It is not that understanding of the sentence is the secondary issue, but that it is sort of like life and death (?) issue for the Korean highschoolers because the sentence in question was from the college entrance exam which is taken as serious as life and death issue in Korea due to the fierce competition in school or out of school, that is, job market in these days.

So, please be patient with me and take a second look at the sentence in context I provided this time.
I know the context is the king in dealing with any interpretation of the original intention or meaning in any sentence, but the context wasn’t bailable earlier.

here is the context;

The violinists and pianists whose names you’ve heard regularly earn between $30,000 and $50,000 for

a single performance. Rare (2) are the musical organizations that can afford to hire those musicians for

every concert. So many orchestras turn to lesser known musicians. Some of these musicians are full of

talent and energy and they play (3) much better than some of the famous musicians. If your orchestra

is hiring a soloist you haven’t heard of, the chances are good (4) that she’s fantastic.

Otherwise, she wouldn’t have been chosen among ⑤thousands of musicians. 

The #4 question was to do with the function of ‘that’ clause.
So, misunderstanding can lead to chose a wrong answer that can cost a pass to college.

Thank you for reading.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 April 2009 09:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7341
Joined  2007-08-21

I see no problem with the other interpretation. What you “read into the sentence,” as opposed to what is actually writtem, is a matter of interpretation, not grammar.

For example, how do you know that the soloist is female unless this has fact been announced? If it has been announced, along with her name, then you’ve either heard of her or you haven’t, and there is no need to say “chances are.”

Also, the sentence you asked about is quite complicated: two main clauses, each with it’s own subordinate clause. If your test depends on semantic interpretation, it is not simply a grammar test. Even if it’s partly a reading comprehension test, those who score the test should be looking to see how well you understand facts from a reading passage, not how you interpret a sentence with potential multiple meanings.

 Signature 

Ars longa, vita brevis

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 April 2009 03:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  98
Joined  2009-03-28

the chances are good that she’s fantastic.

What is the function of that clause, that she’s fantastic?

I just don’t know how to relate that clause to other word in the sentence, since the sentence has subject the chances, be verb and completer good.
Any explanation?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 April 2009 05:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7341
Joined  2007-08-21

I believe that the clause, “that she’s fantastic,” serves as a complement to the noun, “chances.”

In other words, the sentence might have been written, “...the chances that she’s fantastic are good,” where “that she’s fantastic” tells is what kind of chances.

If this is the case, the relocation of the clause to the end of the sentence would be for emphasis.

.

 Signature 

Ars longa, vita brevis

Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 April 2009 01:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  98
Joined  2009-03-28

If ‘that she is fantastic’ serves as complement, what about ‘good’ which seems to serve as subjective complement, chance = good.

Is it possible that clause functions as modifier of the subject ‘chance’?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 April 2009 04:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7341
Joined  2007-08-21

“good” is the subject complement, modifying “chances.” In essence, “chances” is modified by two adjectives: good chances [what kind of changes] and chances that she’s fantastic [which chances].

 Signature 

Ars longa, vita brevis

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 April 2009 03:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  909
Joined  2004-10-31
khenry - 18 April 2009 05:42 PM

If your orchestra is hiring a soloist you haven’t heard of,

the chances are good that she’s fantastic.

All seems to be well, except perhaps a few discrepancies in literary style:

If your orchestra is hiring a soloist [whom] you haven’t heard of, the chances are good that she’s fantastic.

“If your orchestra is hiring a soloist whom you haven’t heard of, chances are good that she’s fantastic.”

 Signature 

1.  הכל הבל׃ hakkōl hâvel Qohelet 1:2 “all (is) vanity” KJV loc. cit.
2.  [οἱ] ἔσχατοι πρῶτοι [Textus Receptus] Mark 10:31 novissimi primi Vulg. “last (shall be) first” ibid.
3.  ’Tis the path you take in life that’s more important!  Sufi wisdom

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 April 2009 03:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7341
Joined  2007-08-21

Yes, indeed. Using “chances” instead of “the chances” is cleaner.

Also, if you understand pronoun case, you’ll see that “whom” is the correct choice for your sentence. Unfortunately, many native English speakers don’t know when to use “who” and when to use “whom, so they leave out the pronoun to avoid being wrong. The same is true for using “that” and “which.”

Writing your way around something you’re unsure of works, but it’s always better to know what’s what.

 Signature 

Ars longa, vita brevis

Profile
 
 
Posted: 25 April 2009 09:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  909
Joined  2004-10-31

Superb explanation, saparris, which inspires me to ask just what you may currently have in pensive mind—surely not the heightened Realpolitik of contemporary gay rights!

 Signature 

1.  הכל הבל׃ hakkōl hâvel Qohelet 1:2 “all (is) vanity” KJV loc. cit.
2.  [οἱ] ἔσχατοι πρῶτοι [Textus Receptus] Mark 10:31 novissimi primi Vulg. “last (shall be) first” ibid.
3.  ’Tis the path you take in life that’s more important!  Sufi wisdom

Profile
 
 
Posted: 25 April 2009 09:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7341
Joined  2007-08-21

Thank you for the compliment.

On the subject of rights and lefts, a very close friend of mine once said, “Judge not, that ye be not judged.”

 Signature 

Ars longa, vita brevis

Profile
 
 
Posted: 25 April 2009 09:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2034
Joined  2002-10-28

Were you sharing a cell at the time?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 25 April 2009 10:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  909
Joined  2004-10-31

Nay, only a remote thread link—I do not forget easily, no indeed!

 Signature 

1.  הכל הבל׃ hakkōl hâvel Qohelet 1:2 “all (is) vanity” KJV loc. cit.
2.  [οἱ] ἔσχατοι πρῶτοι [Textus Receptus] Mark 10:31 novissimi primi Vulg. “last (shall be) first” ibid.
3.  ’Tis the path you take in life that’s more important!  Sufi wisdom

Profile
 
 
   
1 of 4
1