Reading Katy’s latest tagline from Psalm 121, I can’t help bemoaning the abandonment of the beautiful verse of the King James’ Bible. Modern translations simply don’t do it for me. I miss the rhythms and cadances of the ‘original’:
Modern:
I lift up my eyes to the hills - where does my help come from? My help comes from the Lord, the Maker of heaven and earth. He will not let your foot slip - he who watches over you will not slumber; indeed, he who watches over Israel will neither slumber nor sleep.
The Lord watches over you - the Lord is your shade at your right hand; the sun will not harm you by day,
nor the moon by night. The Lord will keep you from all harm - he will watch over your life; the Lord will watch over your coming and going both now and forevermore.
King James’:
I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help. My help cometh from the Lord, which made heaven and earth. He will not suffer thy foot to be moved: he that keepeth thee will not slumber. Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep. The Lord is thy keeper: the Lord is thy shade upon thy right hand. The sun shall not smite thee by day, nor the moon by night. The Lord shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul. The Lord shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.
Call me old-fashioned, but the new version isn’t a patch on the old one. So much for progress. ;D
- PW
PS. In an interesting exercise, the American author John Barth wrote three tales, each following the precise rhythm of the Lord’s Prayer (KJ version). Interestingly, the rhythm gains a life of its own. It’s so ingrained in our subconscious that it feels like some primordial drum pattern….
OK, inspired by my post of ten minutes ago ;D, here’s the mother of examples, the Lord’s Prayer:
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Book of Common Prayer (1928)
Our Father, who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy Name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, As we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen.
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That’s exactly the way I learned it as a snot-nosed kid. Here’s what they’re trying to palm off on today’s kids:
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The New Testament in Modern English (1963, tr. Phillips)
Our Heavenly Father, may your name be honored;
May your kingdom come, and your will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day the bread we need,
Forgive us what we owe to you, as we have also forgiven those who owe anything to us.
Keep us clear of temptation, and save us from evil.
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Sounds like something a used car salesman might say. Where’s the wonder? Where’s the drama? No wonder everything’s going to Hell in a handbasket. ;)
Nothing is as the majestic beauty of the King James Version.
Yea, its way is often of times past, but in cheer I suffer a word whose meaning is dark, for its prose is as a lily among the thorns.
If thou seest error in the translation, knowest that the men whose work you read knew not enough to satisfy the ancient tongues.
Verily, when I am annointed King, I shall authorize a new work that cleaves to the Book of old but embraces words of delight, and that which was written uprightly, even words of truth.
[quote author=Palewriter link=board=omni;num=1050377546;start=0#1 date=04/14/03 at 23:47:41]And forgive us our trespasses, As we forgive those who trespass against us.
I’m a debtor, myself.
When I was in grad school we used to have to translate the NT Greek, and then compare the results with at least 5 translations and bring it all to class for comparisons. Usually, the NRSV and the NIV were the closest to the translations we made. Sometimes, because of language, the KJ would get closer to the meaning, but usually we were sort of surprised at how the KJ guys had translated certian passages… as if they had an agenda. The day I remember, though, was the day that the Good News Bible (a self-professed interpretation, not translation) actually got closer to the NT meaning, according to our classes best efforts, than the NIV or the NRSV or the NKJ or the New English Bible! I wish I could remember the passage, but I would have to dig out dusty notebooks and search for hours… not likely to happen any time soon!
I love listening to the KJ. But I get very frustrated with it for study.
[quote author=Tims Wife link=board=omni;num=1050377546;start=0#4 date=04/15/03 at 08:16:44]I love listening to the KJ. But I get very frustrated with it for study.
For studying, I think it’s wise to keep a number of versions handy. And for those who know those languages, Greek, Latin and Hebrew editions are useful too.
Bible Gateway offers keyword and passage searches in many versions and languages.
[quote author=KatyBr link=board=omni;num=1050377546;start=0#2 date=04/15/03 at 00:43:45]
LOL, PW, I can do without all the thees and thous, they weren’t common usage in the court of that day and were archaic at that time. A mere contrivance. A Way, if you will to further sdeperate God from the common man….
You covered this in your ‘rambling’ PS… but I feel the need to say that the language was chosen not necessarily as a tool to remove the language and meaning from the grasp of the common folk, but because the Bible was considered a great work of literature and demanded the most poetic realizations into English. There have been other realizations throughout the history of English. And they do make for interesting comparative studies… if you’re a weirdo like me.
[quote author=KatyBr link=board=omni;num=1050377546;start=0#6 date=04/15/03 at 13:10:56]Yes, the KJV doth play trippingly upon the tongue, but it altho doth obfuthcate thomething fierth. lol
Katy
Who still doesn’t know what froward is. (lol)
[quote author=Tim Ward link=board=omni;num=1050377546;start=0#7 date=04/15/03 at 16:35:20]
. . . (T)he Bible was considered a great work of literature and demanded the most poetic realizations into English.
The Hebrew text of the Bible, through, say, Kings or so, is laconic, even terse, in style, yet replete with word-play that cannot be translated. The language of Chronicles feels ‘newer,’ the language of many of the prophets is extremely difficult, the language of the Psalms highly poetic. Much of the sense that individual authors wrote particular books gets lost in translation, however beautiful that translation might be.
I don’t know Greek, so I can’t comment on whether the different books of the New Testament in Greek reflect the style of their authors. Because the New Testament was written over a much shorter period of time than the Old Testament, I doubt whether one could sense ‘newer’ vs. ‘older’ language in the text.
That a translation loses the sense of individual authors is unfortunate, but difficult to avoid. I feel this every day when I read the English edition of the Hebrew daily Ha’aretz.
Here are some variations on one of the few passages I’ve managed to memorize. All but the last two are from Agoraphile’s Bible Gateway link.
1 Timothy 5:23
KJV (King James Version):
Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.
NKJV (New King James Version):
No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities.
KJ21 (21st Century King James Version):
Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thy frequent infirmities.
NIV (New International Version):
Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.
CEV (Contemporary English Version):
Stop drinking only water. Take a little wine to help your stomach trouble and the other illnesses you always have.
NASB (New American Standard Bible):
No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.
MSG (The Message):
And don’t worry too much about what the critics will say. Go ahead and drink a little wine, for instance; it’s good for your digestion, good medicine for what ails you.
NLT (New Living Translation):
Don’t drink only water. You ought to drink a little wine for the sake of your stomach because you are sick so often.
ESV (English Standard Version):
(No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)
ASV (American Standard Version):
Be no longer a drinker of water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.
YLT (Young’s Literal Translation):
no longer be drinking water, but a little wine be using, because of thy stomach and of thine often infirmities;
WYC (Wycliffe New Testament):
Do not thou yet drink water, but use a little wine, for thy stomach, and for thine oft falling infirmities.
Confraternity Version ((C) 1941)
Stop drinking water only, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thy frequent infirmities.
Here is the heart of the matter, I think; on one hand there is the reading of the work for the sake of the poetry and on the other hand reading the work simply for its message or meaning.
If I was interested enough I would learn Hebrew (ancient not modern) and read the Torah in that. The only work I do like is Solomon’s Song and that would utterly ruined in plain English because the thing is a love poem!
One of the reasons I so enjoy Stephen Mitchell’s translation of the Tao te Ching is that he is true to both poetry and meaning rather than precise translation. I would love to be able to read the original. For me, this is the most elegant and sound of treatises on living.
Correct. The rhythms of KJB were drummed into us as little mites. Someone speaking Inuit in the rhythm of the KJV Lord’s Prayer would get my attention. That’s what’s so clever about the John Barth story. It’s not about meaning, it’s about sounds.
As you all must know, I love "thou" and all that archaic stuff.
If a modern translation, such as the "Living Bible," distorts anything into modern idioms and culture, it is promptly thrown against the wall and not looked at for a week, at which point it is picked up with gloves and thrown out the window, where it can just think about what it said for another week. I just won’t put up with that sort of blasphemy in my house!
I do like the KJ. I also have a Moffat Bible, which is not very well phrased, but does give some insight in the words and meanings of the Hebrew and Greek. My Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible is wonderful too.
I just won’t put up with that sort of blasphemy in my house!
I’m with you, Sitran. What brings me out in hives is the prospect of another "Modern version of Shakespeare ".
Rapp Hamlet, performed by some gang of hoodlums, for example.
Yo, b i t c h, the nunnery
Don’t look at me
You makin’ funna me?
Don’t dis me, you mutha
My boat got float by anotha
That nunnery, go there
Don’t give me sh*t coz I mess yo hair
Jus’ git there, jus’ git there,
Mah b i t c h.
[quote author=Palewriter link=board=omni;num=1050377546;start=15#16 date=04/17/03 at 20:51:52]
I’m with you, Sitran. What brings me out in hives is the prospect of another "Modern version of Shakespeare ".
Rapp Hamlet, performed by some gang of hoodlums, for example.
Yo, b i t c h, the nunnery
Don’t look at me
You makin’ funna me?
Don’t dis me, you mutha
My boat got float by anotha
That nunnery, go there
Don’t give me sh*t coz I mess yo hair
Jus’ git there, jus’ git there,
Mah b i t c h.
I’m going to HATE myself in the morning.
- PW ;)
PW, I hate to tell you this… But that wasn’t half bad. Or maybe I wasn’t supposed to laugh?
