There does appear to be a problem with both the attitude of doctors: "We know it all," and the attitude of patients: "You could fix me if you wanted to."
There are a few doctors who are waking up to the fact that a holistic approach to health is necessary (i.e. nutrition and absorption issues), but in general, the field of medicine is dominated by the current fad of pill popping, and that is exactly what the average patient wants and expects.
I have a big problem with the field of psychiatry. I am not alone in the belief that "mental illness" is a metaphor that has been taken literally in and out of the psychiatric circle. http://www.szasz.com/manifesto.html
>:( Oh, gimme a break! Doctors have long been constantly telling their patients that they need to maintain healthier diets, exercise more, get rid of those nasty addictions, reduce their stress, etc, but nobody ever listens!
This can hardly be blamed on any doctor who is worth his salt - the doctor can give advice to people if they come to see him, but he can’t force them to come see him. And so the patient is lazy and lets his own body go to hell, and once it’s already there then decides to ask the doc what he should be do. What choice does the doctor have but to try the more extreme methods when the patient refuses to take care of himself?
Sorry… just blowing off some steam. I hate to see an entire profession maligned when there are so many good, caring, skilled people who really do try - and not so infrequently succeed - in improving the lives of the people who come to them for help. It’s unfair to judge an entire profession by its worst examples, without considering the ideals that they have fallen short of - and that others still constantly strive towards.
~Silver
Oh, yes, doctors do moralize and judge people unfit for treatment or give ultimatums (ultimata) to their patients.
Also I think it is unfair to ask people to give up their vices (or laziness); it is completely unrealistic.
When I spoke of "holistic," I specifically had in mind nutrition and absorption. How many people come down with thrush (or other yeast and fungal infections) from the over use of antibiotics? Why not take some friendly bacteria? Why do most doctors not mention this?
And, yes, you can do all the doctor says and still be ill, or get another illness caused by drug interaction or absorption problems.
Personally, I only go to the doctor when I have tried everything else, and have most often regretted the experience.
(I am not including dentists in this tirade! I like dentists much better than regular doctors, but they have some other problems and inconsistencies.)
I decided I no longer want to take drugs or have any more surgery
While not being a herbologist, or indeed a herb-anything, I do relate to the reluctance to take drugs. I have long eschewed pharmaceuticals. I’m probably the only person on my block still not immune to antibiotics, since I almost never take them. If I ever get the clap, I’ll be an easy fix. For other bacteria attacks, I’ve found that an antibiotic regimen of, say, 10 days can easily be replaced with a "do nothing and wait" regimen of approximately the same period of time.
I’m very suspicious of OTC drugs, too. There are people I know who routinely and on a daily basis take two or three antihistamines, a couple of pain killers, an aspirin or two, followed by a Tylenol for good measure. Not to mention all the "supplements". The other day, I heard some expert expounding the virtues of Vitamin B12. "It’s the same vitamin that’s contained in liver", he pointed out. I eat liver once a week because I like it AND because my Mom told me 50 years ago that it was good for me. Call me old-fashioned, but a pound of liver for about a buck fifty makes a lot more sense than the doctor’s B12 supplement, costing $39.95 a bottle, or some such.
My [s]quack[/s] doctor seems to prescribe Advil for everything except severed limbs. I won’t take it.
If I ever get a cold or a headache, I find a couple of fingers of single malt will, if not cure the ailment, at least get me to the point where I don’t care about it anymore.
[quote author=Palewriter link=board=omni;num=1062110627;start=0#5 date=08/28/03 at 23:44:01]I’m probably the only person on my block still not immune to antibiotics, since I almost never take them.
Alas, but here’s an excellent example of how you can act responsibly and everyone else can screw it up for you. It’s not people who become immune to antibiotics, it’s the bacteria themselves. So you could go your entire life not frivolously demanding antibiotics for minor ailments, and then when you do truly need them, find out that you’ve gotten a strain that’s immune because so many people demand antibiotics when they aren’t called for, and too many doctors oblige them. Just peachy.
There are people I know who routinely and on a daily basis take two or three antihistamines, a couple of pain killers, an aspirin or two, followed by a Tylenol for good measure.
Now that horrifies me. Drugs have their use, and it’s not everyday. That’s a great way to blow out your liver.
Not to mention all the "supplements"
Ugh, ugh, and double ugh! I hate it when people are too lazy to save themselves some trouble. If they’d take the time to actually try more healthful foods, they might just find that it’s a lot more satisfying. I don’t mean the overprocessed crap grocery stores keep in the freezer section with ‘reduced fat’, sodium, sugar, whatever, labels slapped all over them, I mean real tasty fruits and veggies from the garden, or at least the farmer’s market. And ethnic foods that haven’t yet been screwed up by American standards - some people seem to think that the way to cut down on the meat in their diets is to fill the void with re-textured tofu clones. Ugh! Much better to get the tried-and-true recipies that have been passed down through the generations by people who actually know how to prepare good food. There’s no need for supplements if one is eating food that deserves to be called such a thing.
~Silver
(Who thinks that a lifestyle of holistic health and consulting doctors are far from contradictory.)
I may be harsh on (most) doctors in general, but am equally suspicious of all the supplements that are touted as the save all to end all of nutrition. You really never now what you’re getting.
I try this or that every once in a while, but have never noticed any difference in my health. I do try to eat organic foods, but not as a rule. Hopefully I am getting some of the minerals lost from the soil.
Sitran
PS Hot toddies are my solution to the cold and flu.
[quote author=El_Viejo_Feo link=board=omni;num=1062110627;start=0#3 date=08/28/03 at 22:35:23]I . . . Some are obviously in the business because of the money they can get. In 1979 I paid a neurologist $100 American dollars for the ten minutes he spent with my 3 year old daughter who had had a seizure. . . .
Well, you have to factor in the cost of malpractice insurance. A few years ago there were no practicing obstetricians in the city of Annapolis: premiums were too high. Gynecologists, yes, obstetricians, no.
Who sent you to a neurologist? Your pediatrician? My daughter had a seizure at about that age, and my wife called our pediatrician. After an ambulance ride to the hospital (they wouldn’t take her to the pediatrician), they put her in a bath to cool her down and she was fine and playing with a plastic syringe (sans needle!) by the time I got there. The doctor in the emergency room said it was a febrileseizure, usually caused by an ear infection in that age group. Even though he couldn’t see an ear infection, he put her on an antibiotic. It was her first of many, many, ear infections. The seizure comes because of the sudden rise in temperature, and she only had the one. It’s usually hereditary, and I was the culprit in this case. It scared the bejesus out of my wife!
On the other hand just recently I had a priamry care physician just out of residency. He was great, one of the best doctors I’ve ever seen.
Getting work done at a dental school can save money, but not time. The students are always sensitive to the patients pain, but it you’re getting an extraction done, when closing time comes near the instructor might come in to take over so speed things up. Still, if you think about it, the students are getting graded on their work, so they have to do it right.
But my real issue is with pharmaceutical companies. Several years ago I found a list of the obscene salaries paid to CEOs of major corporations. Among the highest paid were some from pharmaceutical companies. . . . And don’t believe the poppycock about how the stuff from Mexico is lower in quality. Often it is manufactured in the same factory as the medicine you buy in the U.S.
Viejo
Most CEOs of major corporations are paid much more than they are worth. Consider how much (or how little) a Cabinet Secretary is paid, for instance Tommy Thompson of the US Department of Health and Human Services which oversees the Food and Drug Administration which in turn approves drugs in the US. HHS is also responsible for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the National Institutes of Health, and the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (which is the largest health insurer in the US), among other agencies.
There are also the PBMs, Pharmaceutical Benefits Managers, who negotiate contracts between insurance companies and drug companies. At least one has been accused of taking money to place drugs on the approved list and not passing that money on to the companies and their clients. Can you say "middleman?"
My own personal pharmacopeia is up to seven prescriptions plus an over-the-counter baby aspirin, plus two vitamins. I suppose I could drop the vitamns, but I wouldn’t drop any of the prescriptions.
Oh, yes. When I sprained my ankle just before college graduation, multiple doses of Schlitz Draft took care of the pain.
[quote author=KatyBr link=board=omni;num=1062110627;start=0#12 date=08/31/03 at 22:23:13] . . .
Also Doctors are paid by the drug companies to prescribe their drugs. So whether or not you need it, you will be prescribed the drug du jour.
Katy
Most of your individuals in your pharmacopia are for the side effects from your first two ‘scripts.
No so much these days, especially if you’re in an HMO (Health Maintainace Organization)—they try to limit costs by using generics when available and charging you more for a trade name than a generic even if a generic is not available. Of course, the PBMs (Pharmaceutical Benefits Managers) often help determine what’s in your HMO’s pharmacopeia.
And no, Katy, each is for something specific. While I won’t go into details, I will say that my dentist wanted one of my ‘scripts changed and my primary care physician changed it. But none of my scripts are for side effects of the others; each addresses something specific.
potatoes, gravy, well marbled steaks, roast beef, bacon, eggs
Sounds like my recipe for a balanced diet, Viejo.
I’ve found a meat supplier who can get me Prime Grade steaks at a reasonable price. I simply can’t eat Select or Choice anymore. Potatoes are a joy, particularly when fried to a crisp in peanut oil. I’m careful with anything from a pig, but I enjoy bacon, if it’s crispy. As for eggs, I use them only boiled in salads. I try to eat fish once a week and liver once a week. I believe that liver, cooked correctly, with a Vitamin C-rich addition (such as an orange sauce, a sliced avocado, or a peach salad) does wonders for overall health.
For colds and flus, toddys can’t be beat.
- PW
who thinks he might be turning into a witch :)
From Altered Minds by Jacob Sullum, a senior editor at Reason and the author of "Saying Yes: In Defense of Drug Use."
He [[url=http://www.paincare.org/about/board/tennant.html
]Forrest Tennant, M.D.[/url]] recognized that the connection between drugs and terrorism, cited by the government to justify the war on drugs, was actually a consequence of prohibition, which makes the drug trade a highly lucrative business and delivers it into the hands of criminals. "We’ve got to take the profit out of it," he says.
I like this Doctor!
Sitran
PS Thanks so much, Stargzr, for your technical help!
Let’s not have prohibition but let’s have a two strikes and your out law.
I am very much for personal responsibility. People should be responsible for the things they do whether they are drunk or sober or angry or stoned. (I’ll bet anger is involved in 99.99% of all domestic violence and we can’t outlaw that!)
I think the law is too easy on drunk driving. It has turned
alcohol/drug treatment into a cottage industry with a revolving door, and then in a year they get their licenses back and before you know it, back to "treament." No one I know who has gone through a treatment program involuntarily has ever stayed sober and has usually driven drunk again. (My lost of respect for these friends has very much alienated our relationships.)
Chronic drunkenness has been a problem since the days of Noah, but there is no reason that someone who is a responsible user of drugs or alcohol should not be able to put whatever they want into their own body.
I do not foresee a great leap into drugs when they are legalized, but I do see a great reduction in crime and black market profits.
Herion addicts are terrible when they are jones-ing, but the crystal meth crowd has got to be the worst, within very little time they become quite bizarre in their behavior.
Most of the trouble with drugs is the cost and the theft it takes to keep up the habit, not to mention the underworld that it supports.
Violent people tend to be violent even when they are not on drugs.
I want the drug dealers and the underworld out of my residental neighborhood and put down in the ugly strip malls along major highways where they belong!
I haven’t heard the verb form, but from the context, Sitran must have been referring to the withdrawal symptoms which are acute in the case of heroin. When they are high, heroin users aren’t terrible, so much as pitiful. They just sit there.
[quote author=demijohn link=board=omni;num=1062110627;start=15#20 date=09/05/03 at 09:32:07]To have a "jones" is to have an addiction.
Mmmm, not necessarily so, although the drug world is certainly the origin of the term "jones". It’s now more loosely used to indicate anything for which one has a great desire or need, i.e. "I’m jonesin’ for that new Marilyn Manson CD."
Also, in my glorious (sometimes not so) party days in the mid to late ‘80s we used this term to describe the feeling of coming down from a cocaine high. Such "recreational" drugs were taken by some of my friends on a very infrequent basis, perhaps monthly or less. Of course a few of them developed problems and addictions after casual experimentation, some never did. I was always too chicken to dabble much and never with the harder stuff. Fear is your mind telling you you’re about to do something stupid. I mostly listened.
With regard to pharmaceuticals, I can only thank the Goddess for being born at a time when medications that have allowed me to grow to adulthood were available, regardless of cost. It still pisses me off that I have to spend $400/month for the priviledge of drawing breath when I know that the pills cost a fraction of that to make. However, isn’t the drug companies’ defense that the inflated prices are subsidizing research? Also, I’m fairly certain that had I been born at another, earlier, time I wouldn’t have been as badly afflicted with respiratory disease because there would have been far fewer toxins in our air.
"Pharmaceutical companies disingenuously claim to want to ‘protect’ people from the drugs that they themselves produced," said Joseph Seehusen, executive director of the party. "The truth is that this industry is far more worried about protecting its government-protected profits than it is about protecting public health."
"The free market is the best prescription for reducing health-care costs," said the party’s chief. "It’s time to decriminalize prescription drugs and protect senior citizens from the government."
I had to giggle when I read this bit. Hopefully, the proposed free market would work better than the deregulation of electric power in California [pause for guffaw]. Anyway, since WHEN was health care (or healthcare) hyphenated?
[aside] I always zoom in on the most important stuff. [/aside]
The mental picture of senior citizens (didn’t we used to call them old age pensioners?) cowering in the shadow of the nasty government almost brings tears to my eyes [pause for big sniff].
