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Posted: 20 February 2006 11:28 AM   [ Ignore ]
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There doesn’t seem to be a suitable forum for *pronunciation* of words, and I couldn’t figure out which of the others was more appropriate than this one. So here it is.

A friend on LJ today posted a comment about his office co-worker (or possibly cow-orker), who pronounces "cache" as "kashay". My friend was adamantly insisting that it’s pronounced "kash" (like the folding stuff).

I replied with the comment that in Oz, at least wherever I hear it pronounced, it’s more like "kaysh", whether referring to computer memory or a secret hiding spot or treasure stowed within such a spot.

I think this might be a word like "route", which again here in Oz is normally pronounced "root", but when referring to computers/internet, is pronounced "rowt". So you’d talk about a bus route ("root"), or about a wireless router ("rowter").

So I thought I’d put it to you lot. Is it "kash" or "kaysh", and "rowt" or "root" ?

Azh
(T-4 and procrastinating)

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Posted: 20 February 2006 11:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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cache and cachet

-gailr

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Posted: 20 February 2006 01:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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[quote author=gailr link=board=omni;num=1140485285;start=0#1 date=02/20/06 at 20:49:46]cache and cachet

-gailr


gail, you’ve missed the point.

We don’t say "kashay", we say "kaysh". I *know* that a cachet is a different thing altogether.

wink

azh
(still procrastinating)

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Posted: 21 February 2006 07:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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The big book of beastly mispronunciations, byCharles Harrington Elster, says:

cache  KASH (like cash).
cachet ka-SHAY (like cash hay said quickly)
route ROOT or ROWT

ROOT has been preferred or listed first in dictionaries since the mid-195h century.  ROT, however, has as long ahistory as ROOT, and was preferred by many of the earliest authorities.  In the first half of the 20th century ROWT was often labeled colloquial, provincial, or military; it is now well established in various engineering, transportation, delivery, and sales contexts.

I prefer ROOT for all senses of the word route, but it is difficult to fashion an argument for it that goes further than saying that is how I was taught to pronounce it, that is how most educated speakers around me said it, and that is the pronounciation that feels right and cultivated to me.  In my vocabulary, route will always be ROOT and rout ROWT, but many speakers nowadays prefer to pronounce both words ROWT.  Since it cannot be stated unequivocally that one pronunciation fo route is right and the other wrong, I present the following historical evidence, which you can use to make up your mind, bolster your case, or live and let live, as you prefer.

In his Critical Pronouncing Dictionary of 1971, the Gnlish elocutionist John Walker prefers ROOT but notes that the word "is often pronounced so as to rhyme with doubt by respectable speakers.  In a later edition, Walker changed his course.  "Upon a more accurate observation of the best usage," he wrote, "I must give the preference to ROWT… nowithstanding its coincidence in sound with another word of a different meaning; the fewr French sounds of this diphthong we have in our language the better."

Worcester (1860, who prefers ROOT, says, "Most of the orthoepists more recent than Walker give the preference to the pronunciation ROOT."  Ayres (1894) says that "there is abundant authority for pronouncing this word rowt; but this pronunciation is now very generally considered inelegant."  Vizetelly (1929) says the "best modern usage pronounces the word as if written root, " and Opdycke (1939) assigns ROWT to "colloquial and provincial usage."

funk & Wagnalls Standard (1897) countenancwes only ROOT, but the Century (1880-1914) sanctions ROWT as as alternative.  Webster 2 (1934) says that ROOT "is now the generally accepted pronounciation, but in certain special cases rout (ou in out) prevails, as in military use, among railroad men, and colloquially, of a delivery route."

Since then ROWT has gained a good deal of ground, but ROOT still appears to hold the lead among educated speakers, and all four major current American dictionaries list it first.

Morris & Morris (1985) observe that "people like Army engineers, bus and plane dispatchers, and others professionally engaged in planning routes tend to pronounce route so it rhymes with ‘out." Pronouncing it as if it were ‘root’, is owever, equally acceptable."

In Watching My Language (1997), William Safire writes, "President George Bush frowned on ‘the tax-and spend route, which he pronounced ROWT.’ that is not incorrect… Most of us, however, have come to use’root’ to mean ‘way, itinerary, journey, map,’ spelled route, and pronounced the same as the root of a plant.  We use ‘ROWT’ to pronouce the word spelled rout, meaning ‘resounding defeat; disroderly flight from battle; electroal debacle’ ".  It is perfaps worth noting that if Safire received any letters objecting to this assessment when it first appeared in his column in The BNew York Times Magazine, he does not reprint them in his book.

Brazilian dude

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Posted: 21 February 2006 08:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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I’m not surprised by the kaysh. Long vowels are often diphtongized.

In Sweden, the router is always a [rauter].

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Posted: 22 February 2006 02:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Reading BD’s post, I came to realize that, in my mind, I typically pronounce route "root" (which rhymes with "roof", which never rhymes with "hoof" wink) whenever the subject path is not physical but mental.  For physical (i.e., map) directions, I tend to pronounce route to rhyme with "out" (which never rhymes with "boat" wink).

-Tim

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Posted: 22 February 2006 01:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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[quote author=Katy link=board=omni;num=1140485285;start=0#3 date=02/20/06 at 23:53:26]
Azh are you sending us to your vertebrae (T-4)


no, counting down till T-day which is this Saturday afternoon.

and I should be packing my stuff into storage rather than sitting at the computer procrastinating.

Azh.

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Posted: 22 February 2006 02:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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[quote author=Katy link=board=omni;num=1140485285;start=0#9 date=02/22/06 at 22:58:22]I must be out of the loop are you moving?  going on a Sabatical?  Am I supposed to know or is this a secret?

I was under the impression I had mentioned it here, but apparently not wink

I’m going on a world tour - informally known as the "I’m nearly infamous now" tour.

I will be leaving on Saturday afternoon, going to the UK, France, San Francisco/Napa, Vancouver, Toronto and Fort Lauderdale.

I’ll be spending roughly a month/5 weeks in UK/Europe, 4 weeks in the US, 2 weeks each in the two Canadian cities, and then a final 10 days in Florida.

If anyone’s close to any of these places, I’d be happy to meet up for coffee or whatever - just let me know.

I hope to be keeping up with the Agora while I’m away - and also doing some more writing. I’ve been practising my French lately for my trip to France. I hope they don’t laugh at me when I get my genders wrong wink

I’ll also be keeping a tour journal, at http://www.azhworldtour06.livejournal.com - hopefully with lots of pretty photos.

Azh

 

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Posted: 23 February 2006 04:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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[quote author=azhreia link=board=omni;num=1140485285;start=0#10 date=02/22/06 at 23:25:53]I was under the impression I had mentioned it here, but apparently not wink

:(

the UK, France ... these places

My bold ;D
You should have told us way earlier. Can’t squeeze UK or France into my schedule at that short a notice.

when I get my genders wrong wink

At least, I’m sure that I wouldn’t get your gender wrong if I met you. :-*

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Posted: 01 March 2006 07:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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[quote author=azhreia]  I’ve been practising my French lately for my trip to France. I hope they don’t laugh at me when I get my genders wrong wink

Azh

If I catch myself getting a French gender wrong, I just explain that the British are permanently confused about gender.

 

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