[quote author=dgale link=board=idiom;num=1041710600;start=0#14 date=01/05/03 at 13:21:00]I’ve never heard those, and forgive me if I am still brain-slow and can’t figure it out for myself, but what are they?

Well, my quote from Jaynes addresses the first one. An ordinand is someone who has fulfilled all the criteria for ordination as a priest, but who has yet to undergo the ceremony. Similarly, in Scottish universities, you are referred to as a graduand in the time between passing your final examination and going through the graduation ceremony a few weeks later.

Grant

Okay, I get both terms now.  We never say graduand here in the States; it would sound pretentious to Americans I think, or it might just be baffling.  But I like it.  (Well, also, I guess our university systems are different, too.)

[quote author=dgale link=board=idiom;num=1041710600;start=0#14 date=01/05/03 at 13:21:00]I’ve never heard those, and forgive me if I am still brain-slow and can’t figure it out for myself, but what are they?

Go back to grade school math for the first one.  

2  Multiplicand
x3 Multiplier
6 Product

By extension, I would have thought that ordinand was also a mathematical term related to ordinal, but Grant has disabused me of that notion.

Can’t do that, as I’ve conveniently blocked out everything I ever learned in any school system regarding math.  But I do understand the word now.

[quote author=dgale link=board=idiom;num=1041710600;start=15#17 date=01/05/03 at 14:28:22]We never say graduand here in the States; it would sound pretentious to Americans I think ...

I suppose it just depends on what you’re used to. The American education system, when seen from this side of the Atlantic, uses quite a few high-falutin’ words that are unfamiliar to us: sophomore, valedictorian, summa cum laude, magna cum laude ...

Grant

[quote author=dgale link=board=idiom;num=1041710600;start=15#19 date=01/05/03 at 14:32:46]I’ve conveniently blocked out everything I ever learned in any school system regarding math.

Isn’t that ... inconvenient?

Grant

Oy vey, yes, it is very inconvenient!

Seriously, I’m not a math person.  Never have been.  I get a little anxious whenever I get the bill and have to leave a tip as I have no idea how to do percentages.  Fortunately for all the waitstaff out there I am generous by nature and usually overtip.

As for our high-falutin’ words in regard to education: I completely agree.

Yeah… but sophomore is so wonderfully accurate, no?

It’s interesting that that’s the one word we use to mean something else - sophomoric - as in someone who’s pretentious and immature.  But we don’t say "junioric" or "senioric."  (Although I seem to remember a reference to someone having "senioritus.")

I think that the use of ‘sophomoric’ in English came before the application of ‘sophomore’ to mean second-year student, since the literal meaning is indeed ‘wise-ass’

[quote author=Silver Han link=board=idiom;num=1041710600;start=15#25 date=01/06/03 at 18:18:57]I think that the use of ‘sophomoric’ in English came before the application of ‘sophomore’ to mean second-year student, since the literal meaning is indeed ‘wise-ass’

I’d noticed that—gives the word a new dimension  :D

According to the OED, the reverse is actually the case: sophomore was used in 1688 to mean a student of the second year in a university; sophomoric was used later, in 1837, to mean immature, bombastic, etc.

Interesting, I’ve never heard the ‘wise-ass’ literal translation… and I’m inclined to believe that it isn’t true.

From the AHD:

[Alteration (probably influenced by Greek sophos, wise, and moros, stupid), of sophumer from obsolete sophom, sophism, dialectic exercise, variant of sophism.]

No, the literal meaning of sophomore is not wise-ass.  Sophism, according to the OED, comes from a Greek word I can’t type since I don’t have a Greek keypad, that means wise, clever.

Let’s try it in the Latin alphabet:

soph·ism n.

1.  A plausible but fallacious argument.

2.  Deceptive or fallacious argumentation.

[Middle English sophime, sophisme, from Old French sophime, from Latin sophisma, from Greek, from sophizesthai, to be subtle, from sophos, clever, wise.]

And here’s the "wise fool" etymology:

soph·o·more n.

1.  

 a.  A second-year student in a U.S. college.
 
 b.  A tenth-grade student in a U.S. high school.

2.  A person in the second year of carrying out an endeavor.
[Alteration (probably influenced by Greek sophos, wise, and moros, stupid), of sophumer from obsolete sophom, sophism, dialectic exercise, variant of sophism.]