Agora Forums
 
   
 
Indian Summer
Posted: 06 September 2004 04:30 AM   [ Ignore ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1233
Joined  2004-04-29

Everyone here is using this phrase a lot: the English do like to talk about the weather. Without much thought, I had always assumed that it was something to do with the climate of the Indain subcontinent. However, we are experiencing a hot and humid beginning to the autumn rather than monsoons. My dictionary tells me that the idiom is to do with American Indians. Has anyone any thoughts about where this comes from?

- Garzo.

 Signature 

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.&&-The First Letter of Saint Paul to the Corinthians, chapter 13.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 September 2004 06:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  567
Joined  2004-05-21

When learning English in my earlier days, I was told that this expression referred to the usual week or so of good weather that Albion enjoyed on such uncommon dates as September and October. No explanation whatsoever was I given…  :-/

I imagine it has to do more with the fact that the "Indian" weather didn’t have a normal appearance for the Brits that went there and therefore applied the adjective to this also funny "Summer" they had in their homeland.

Anyway, I am eager to know better.

Regards,

         WS.

 Signature 

[I]Nuestras horas son minutos / cuando esperamos saber / y siglos cuando sabemos / lo que se puede aprender.[/I] Antonio Machado

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 September 2004 08:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3773
Joined  2002-08-01

The Old Farmer’s Almanac had this:

Definition: A period of warm weather following a cold spell or a hard frost, Indian summer can occur between St. Martin’s Day (November 11) and November 20. Although there are differing dates for its occurrence, for more than 200 years the Almanac has adhered to the saying "If All Saints’ brings out winter, St. Martin’s brings out Indian summer." As for the origin of the term, some say it comes from the early Native Americans, who believed that the condition was caused by a warm wind sent from the court of their southwestern god, Cautantowwit.

Ask Yahoo! says this:

As the warm days of summer are replaced with the brisk nip of fall, your question proves the perfect puzzle for us to tackle.

According to USA Today, the term "Indian Summer" dates back to 18th-century United States. It can be defined as "any spell of warm, quiet, hazy weather that may occur in October or even early November." Other weather phenomena associated with a true Indian Summer include dry, hazy conditions and southwesterly winds that occur after the first killing frost.

The true origin of the term, however, is the subject of much research and debate. It first shows up in writing in 1778, in a letter from Frenchman-turned-American-farmer named St. John de Crevecoeur who wrote:

   Sometimes the rain is followed by an interval of calm and warmth which is called the Indian Summer; its characteristics are a tranquil atmosphere and general smokiness.

Some speculate the weather phenomenon is named after the Native Americans because they were the first to recognize the pattern. They used the mild weather to hunt and harvest crops in preparation for the winter. Another theory suggests the name was inspired by the Native American belief that the favorable winds were a gift from a god in the desert Southwest. Still another possibility is that the weather pattern was so-named because it occurred more frequently out west, in "Indian" territory, than it did back east. And one rather prejudicial explanation suggests that in this context, "Indian" is used to mean false, so an "Indian Summer" is a false summer.

In a different vein, another theory suggests trading ships used this good weather period to travel to the Indian Ocean. Several ships actually had an "I.S." mark on their hulls at the load level thought safe during the Indian Summer.

Chances are, we will never know the origin of the phrase with any certainty.

And, finally, WordOrigins.org states the following:

Daniel J. Boorstin in his book The Americans, The Colonial Experience postulates an origin for the term Indian Summer, meaning a period of warm weather following the first frost of autumn. He states that European colonists endured raids by Indian war parties throughout the summer months. As the weather started to change, the raids would cease, so autumn was looked upon as a season of relative safety. If, however, warm weather continued into the autumn months, then this condition would mean another Indian Summer. A neat story, unfortunately as an explanation for the term’s origin, it’s quite wrong—proving that even a noted historian like Boorstin can be hoodwinked by popular etymology. (To give Boorstin some credit, his explanation is not totally without merit, having been first promulgated by Philip Doddridge in his 1824 Notes on the Indian Wars.)

Both Mencken and the OED2 fix the earliest recorded usage as 1778, rather late for fears of Indian raids. Even then, it was not a common term until well into the nineteenth century. It does not appear in Webster’s 1828 dictionary, nor in Pickering’s 1816 Vocabulary.

Several differing theories have been promulgated. The OED2 plumps for the idea that the phenomenon was more prevalent in the west, or Indian territory than on the Eastern seaboard. Mencken spends the most text describing the theory that it is called Indian Summer because it is a false summer. Indian is used in several contexts to denote something that is cheap or false, witness Indian-giver and Indian-corn.

Also supporting this idea is the British phrase St. Martin’s Summer referring to the same meteorological phenomenon. St. Martin suggests something cheap or false, primarily because dealers in cheap jewelry gathered at the location of London’s Church of St. Martin-de-Grand after it was torn down in the 16th century. St. Martin’s day is 11 November, which often corresponds to the spell of warm weather.

The first edition of Brewer’s lists a nautical term, Indian Summer Line. This term, which does not appear in the more recent editions, is probably unrelated. Under the entry for "Ship Letters," this book lists the following:

   Ship Letters. These are to indicate when a ship is fully laden, and this depends on its destination.

       * F.W. (Fresh Water line), i.e., it may be laden till this mark touches the water when loading in a fresh-water dock or river.

       * I.S. (Indian Summer line). It was to be loaded to this point in the Indian seas in summer time.

       * S. The summer draught in the Mediterranean.

       * W. The winter draught in the Mediterranean.

       * W.N.A. (Winter North Atlantic line).

-Tim

 Signature 

For myself, I find I become less cynical rather than more… and realize that men’s hearts are not often as bad as their acts, and very seldom as bad as their words. - JRR Tolkien

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 September 2004 01:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1922
Joined  2002-08-01

The Onlne Etymology Dictionary has:

Indian summer - "spell of warm weather after the first frost," first recorded 1778, Amer.Eng., perhaps so called because it was first noted in regions inhabited by Indians, or because the Indians first described it to the Europeans. No evidence connects it with the color of fall leaves or a season of Indian attacks on settlements. It is the Amer.Eng. version of British All-Hallows summer, Fr. été de la Saint-Martin (feast day Nov. 11), etc. Also colloquial was St. Luke’s summer (or little summer), period of warm weather occurring about St. Luke’s day (Oct. 18).

Here in the mid-Atlantic states, sometime around the first of September there’s often a sudden bit of cool weather, following the hot weather of August, that makes one think that someone threw a switch overnight, turning off the heat and turning on the air conditioning.  It then warms back up and slowly cools down as the leave change and autumn proceeds.  Halloween Night is often a chilly night for the Trick-or-Treaters.  Then comes Indian Summer, a warm respite, a final gift of good weather just before winter starts to set in.  I don’t ascribe any particular range of dates to the arrival of Indian Summer; I just call the first exteded warm spell after the beginning of cool Fall weather Indian Summer.  The weather for our early (Before St. Martin’s Day) November wedding, lo these many, many, many years ago, was sunny and in the 70’s (Fahrenheit!).  

There may be warm spells later in the Fall and Winter, but only the first deserves to be called Indian Summer.

 

 Signature 

Regards//Larry &&&&“Her heart was as cold as a stone at the bottom of a mountain lake.”)&&    Travis McGee on Bonita Hersch, Nightmare in Pink (John D. MacDonald)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 18 September 2004 08:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  917
Joined  2003-11-20

    Here’s another theory on the origin of Indian Summer. The author says in this case "Indian" is a synonym for "false" kind of like in expressions like ‘Indian Time’ and ‘Indian giver. ‘It is an MSN site and they want your birth date and country entered in the field.  After that, the web page turns up right away.

     http://www.msnusers.com/THEDRUM/theonlygoodindian.msnw

   —- Brian

 Signature 

b

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 November 2004 03:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1495
Joined  2002-08-27

Here in more northerly climes, there’s a corresponding phenomenon, which is called brittsommar. This has nothing to do with Brits, however, invading or otherwise, but refers instead to the namesday of Sancta Birgitta, which falls on 7 October….

Henri

 Signature 

Ad turpia nemo obligatur.

Profile
 
 
   
 
 
‹‹ You asked for it...      Jerry or Jury ››