Could anybody explain what this word sin means? I note I understand very little of the use of this word apart from being a synonym to crime. In the Untranslatable Words thread anders mentioned that sin is hard to translate into Chinese. And so in Japanese. I can hardly distinguish them other than as aberrations from social norms with different magnitudes of possible damage.
Flam,
who seldom goes on an errand to correct errant ideas
PS. I don’t want to trigger an ideological hazard by asking this. Could I have one of those "light and frothy"? Thanx in advance.
The English word sin derives from Old English synn. The same root appears in several other Germanic languages, e.g. Old Norse synd, or German Sünde. The word may derive, ultimately, from *es-, one of the Indo-European roots that meant "to be," and is a present participle, "being." Latin, also has an old present participle of esse in the word sons, sont-, which came to mean "guilty" in Latin. The root meaning would appear to be, "it is true;" that is, "the charge has been proven." The Greek word hamartia is often translated as sin in the New Testament; it means "to miss the mark" or "to miss the target".
This long but thorough article is not as heavy-handed as those in clearly religious sites. Those studying for holy orders in my church also learn the "miss the target" definition. What I took away from that is the deity isn’t keen on human failings, but can hardly be surprised by them, and is certainly not sitting around up there, just panting for the chance to smite someone that [he] "hates".
This word may be difficult to translate because it is used to describe a wide range of offenses against God, humanity, and social mores.
Well, I had never wondered about "sin", since it’s easily translatable into Spanish; but, anyway, Flam, don’t you like the definition provided by YDC?
sin[sup]1[/sup] [I]n.[/I]
1. A transgression of a religious or moral law, especially when deliberate.
2. [I]Theology[/I] a. Deliberate disobedience to the known will of God. b. A condition of estrangement from God resulting from such disobedience.
3. Something regarded as being shameful, deplorable, or utterly wrong.
I reckon 1 and 2 would be the most used. As to whether it difers from common crimes, one may specificate that sin always denotes the breaking of moral or religious establishments. However, these are so general in their formulae that you might call "sin" any apparent crime.
I took a quick trip through some translation aids and discovered several Japanese translations. The most frequent character used in expressions that are given as translations of "sin" is ZAI (On-yomi—Chinese reading) that also is commonly used in words related to crimes. The one I liked best is ZaiGoo where the second character (Goo) has, among other meanings, "karma"
So ZaiGoo would seem to capture the sense of crime against spiritual matters.
There is another expression IHan (again On-yomi) that is composed of the characters meaning "different" (I) and "against" (Han), which is often used to mean "illegal." However, the character "I" can also mean violate or break (a promise), which avoids the criminal justice overtones of "illegal."
There is another expression IHan (again On-yomi) that is composed of the characters meaning "different" (I) and "against" (Han), which is often used to mean "illegal." However, the character "I" can also mean violate or break (a promise), which avoids the criminal justice overtones of "illegal."
The word ihan may not have the nuance of persecution or incrimination, but the results may be serious. The follows are sampling of English words which are termed ihan in one way or another (search results from http://www.alc.co.jp by "ihan").
infringements of the basic EU values
noncompliance with
violation of the terms of
breach of etiquette
code violation
speeding offense // speeding violation
security breach
protocol violation
rough stuff
material breach by one party
driving infraction
violation of executive-branch rules
violation of an agreement
violation of international law
The first mentioning of the word "sin" in the Bible, in Gen. 4:7, is indeed ZAI in the Japanese Bible, and the same character, zuì, in the Chinese Bible.
ZaiGoo reads zuìyè in Chinese. My modern dictionary does not list the word, but gives yè as (among other things) [I]karma[/I]. Mathews (1943) has "retribution for past sins" for zuìyè. I got some 20 000 Internet hits for zuì + simplified yè; those for which I could guess a context seemed to be Buddhist.
I guess "I" is Ch. yì (field above both), but I can’t identify any Japanese or Chinese sins resulting from it.
The meaning of ‘sin’ is highly dependent on context. There is a technical religious use, and there is a quite different popular use. In popular use, sin is an action or thought that defies some moral law. Almost always the connotations are of sexual transgression. The phrase ‘living in sin’ is an old-fashioned way of describing unmarried couples living together. I would imagine that a web search for ‘sin’ would bring up just as many adult sites (where sin is a positive thing) as religious ones (where sin is a negative thing).
The poetry of the Hebrew Bible uses a number of different poetic synonyms for sin. Just looking through the Psalms I found these words in parallel arrangements: hâtâ’ (to miss the mark, fall short, fail), `âbar (to transgress, go beyond), `âwôn (iniquity, perversion), pâša` (to revolt, rebel), šâgag (to err, go astray), tâ`â (to err, wander), ra` (evil), and râšâ` (wicked, impious).
The standard words in Biblical Hebrew for sin are the first two - hâtâ’ and `âbar. The first has the sense of failure - failing to meet a standard. The second word has the sense of transgression and tresspass - it is the rabbinic idiom for going outside of the law (the Jewish code of living). Hâtâ’ is used to describe the state of a person, whereas `âbar describes an action that leads to that state.
The Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible (Septuagint) and the Christian New Testament use the word hamartia to translate hâtâ’ with approximately the same sense. It is a state of being rather than an action. Other Greek words - like ponêros, adikia, parabasis and anomia - fill out the correspondence with Hebrew words.
The theological view is that "all have fallen short of the glory of God", and thus all are in need of purification. The alternate, ‘Pelagian’, view is that all are perfected, and must strive to resist sin to remain perfect. I prefer the traditional view that the only way is up. :)
[quote author=anders link=board=what;num=1088331806;start=0#7 date=06/28/04 at 09:01:49]The first mentioning of the word "sin" in the Bible, in Gen. 4:7, is indeed ZAI in the Japanese Bible, and the same character, zuì, in the Chinese Bible.
ZaiGoo reads zuìyè in Chinese. My modern dictionary does not list the word, but gives yè as (among other things) [I]karma[/I]. Mathews (1943) has "retribution for past sins" for zuìyè. I got some 20 000 Internet hits for zuì + simplified yè; those for which I could guess a context seemed to be Buddhist.
I guess "I" is Ch. yì (field above both), but I can’t identify any Japanese or Chinese sins resulting from it.
1. Gen. 4:7. According to Shin-Kyoodoo-Yaku (New Oecumenical Translation) with reading helps, the mention to "sin" should be read tsumi, which is a general term for crime/sin/offense. You can go to prison as a result of tsumi but you may get away with it by going to confession.
2. Zaigoo or zuìyè is strictly speaking a Buddhist term. I don’t know about China but in Japan Bible translators consciously avoid using the word.
3. Japanese ihan has clearly secular overtones. It is seldom heard in religious cycles unless the guru is talking about a breach of contract against his advertiser.
[quote author=Flaminius link=board=what;num=1088331806;start=0#9 date=06/28/04 at 10:30:19]2. Zaigoo or zuìyè is strictly speaking a Buddhist term. I don’t know about China but in Japan Bible translators consciously avoid using the word.
Interesting. Would you care to shed some more light on this?
Also, def. 3 provided by WonderingSpaniard, above, is more commonly associated with sinful, rather than sin itself.
Something regarded as being shameful, deplorable, or utterly wrong.
Zaigoo (sin a la Buddisme) is "bad karma," whereas kudoku (merit or good deeds) is "good karma," if you want a philosophical explanation. The former is bad in that it encapsulates an entity deeper into the corporeal world and the latter is good in that it detaches an entity away from the corporeal. Buddha holds bad karma causes pain and good karma happiness, in the next life, or farther down the life.
Christians reject the terms zaigoo and kudoku because they are part of the doctrine of transmigration. According to some Buddhist schools only good and bad karmas transmigrate; no immortal soul and no resurrected body enter their theories. Buddha’s innovation in Indic thought was that he deemed both pain and happiness as suffering (Sanskrit duhkha) and sought a way out of all the sufferings (nirvana). Suffering, in Buddhist sense, is anything that one cannot control. I cannot ascertain this conjecture now, but it is highly plausible that having an immortal soul or a body that needs resurrection must have been considered as sufferings as well.
Theological terms from Indian religions have entered into the mainstream vocabulary of English, but often with little understanding of their technical meanings. Many people tend mix the jargon of Christianity, Indian religion and Platonism. The result seems to have little meaning, but meant to be indicative of some nebulous spirituality.
If you wanted to find the best Japanese word to translate ‘sin’, it might be best to think of something that means ‘missing the mark’, ‘substandard’ or ‘state of failure’. If ‘sin’ is obviously meant as an action rather than a state, I would suggest a word that meant ‘tresspass’, ‘transgression’ or ‘going beyond the bounds’. Of course, this would translate only the religious use of the word. When used popularly you would need a word that meant ‘immorality’ or ‘sexually immorality’.
Thank you Garzo! From your suggestion I have come up with dame. This is rather considered colloquial but meets all your criteria.
‘missing the mark’
A: Could you catch the train?
B: No. dame datta (miss it-was)
‘substandard’ dame-ningen (a failure of humans)
‘state of failure’
A: How is the project going on?
B: No good. dame-ni natta (to-failure became)
It also used for declining an offer, supplication, request and for keeping someone from doing something undesirable.
I thought criteria for being dame are usually social and little religion comes in. BUt as I tried substituting Biblical translation by dame, I realised it would suit better to my gut feeling. THank you again for motivating me towards this great discovery.
[center]There is nothing like a dame.
Nothing in the world.
There is nothing you can name
that is anything like a dame.
We feel restless. We feel blue.
We feel hungry and in need.
We feel every kind of feeling
but the feeling never leaves.
We feel hungry as the wolf felt
when he met Red Riding Hood.
What don’t we feel?
We don’t feel good.
Lots of things in life are beautiful
but, brother, there is
one particular thing that is
in no way, shape, or form like any other.
There is nothing like a dame.
Nothing in the world.
There is nothing you can name
that is anything like a dame.
There are drinks like a dame.
And no books like a dame.
And nothing looks like a dame.
And nothing acts like a dame.
Or attracts like a dame.
There ain’t a thing that’s wrong
with any man here that can’t be cure
by (don’t know what they say).
A girly female feminine dame. [/center]
But the Japanese dame has no silenced final schwa. From the highest authority I hear that dame is "d a m n it" with apocope, disguised as such to pass the prudish immigration officers.
Flaminius,
who nonetheless agree with Katy and Garzo that a dame cannot be dame.
