Does anyone know whence does this [ (il) F A G O T T O] word come? It is an Italian word for bassoon. It belongs to the family of winds (called i legni in Italian; the brass are gli ottoni).
Nymann, here’s a great word origins site, called Take Our Word For It, with an article called Spotlight on… Woodwind Words.
Here’s the paragraph with the information you are looking for:
The Oxford English Dictionary states that "the flute of the ancients, whether single or double, was blown through a mouthpiece at the end". We imagine that the erudite (but unmusical) authors of this passage were probably thinking of the aulos, "double pipe", and the monaulos, "single pipe". These ancient Greek instruments were not, strictly speaking, flutes; they were reed instruments with a double reed, similar to an oboe. Now oboe is the English spelling of the French word hautbois which means, literally, "high wood(wind)" (from haut, "high" + bois, "wood") . This contrasts nicely with bassoon, the bass form of the oboe, which comes from French basson, (either an augmented form of bass, "low" or bass-son, "low-sound"). Etymologically, the conversion of -on to -oon bears comparison with cartoon (from French carton) and buffoon (from Italian buffone). Curiously, the Italian for bassoon is f a g o t t o, "bundle of sticks". This is because the overall length of the bassoon was so great that it had to be made as a collection interlocking parts. When not in use, it presumably resembled a "bundle of sticks".
-Tim
P.S. For Pete’s sake, I also had to modify the term from within the quote!!
Aaaaaaaaaa, the thing is that I keep writing it normally and it looks so in the post editing, but when I press POST it just turns in that mess of signs. I don’t know what’s happening!
[quote author=Tim Ward link=board=etymology;num=1047296917;start=0#1 date=03/10/03 at 08:49:54]Nymann, don’t you just love the filtered rendering of your word?
Everyone, what he was asking was the origin of f a g o t t o (the Italian word for the instrument called the bassoon in English).
-Tim
I new you would find it. It was just a tiny test for your search skill.
Why do you constantly write "-Tim" on the end of every single one of your posts; that way we see three "Tims" everywhere?
P.S. Where’s the IM on classical music you were going to send me?
See what happens when you get older and have children, Nymann? You’re lucky if you even remember what day it is! :P
IM me and remind me what I was supposed to IM you with…
As for the signature at the bottom, it signifies closure. That way, the reader sees immediately that I presumed I had a complete thought when I posted it!
Also, of bulletin board signatures in general, it helps avoid confusion in how to refer to the user in responses - should we call him Tim, Tim Ward, Mr. Ward? Well, he signs his messages as Tim, so it must be okay to call him that. It’s not as critical with Tim’s name (though it was more informative when he was using tcward as his screen name) since he’s actually using his real name (unless it’s not :-X), but with others it could get weird - it’s a little awkward, say, if you’re responding to someone named skoidmnekdlekalek or whatever. I personally find being addressed as ‘Silver Han’ a little overly formal and Ms. Han extremely so, (not even to begin on being called Mr. Han) so I’ve taken to signing -
[quote author=Tim Ward link=board=etymology;num=1047296917;start=0#2 date=03/10/03 at 08:58:09]Nymann, here’s a great word origins site, called Take Our Word For It, with an article called Spotlight on… Woodwind Words.
Cool site! I especially liked the notes about clarinets.
[quote author=Silver Han link=board=etymology;num=1047296917;start=0#10 date=03/11/03 at 00:04:58]
(I love to toot my own horn.)
~Silver
In what "variants" are horns made? I know for the horn in F (the standard one), but I found someone mentioning horns in G, in B and in C. Horns in G [corni in sol] are used in Händel’s Alcina.
P.S. Tim, look at your last post on octaves. You wanted to send me smth., but I don’t know what that was.
As an interesting sidelight as to how this word came to be used as a negative euphemism for a gay man, the story is reported (like the passive?) that to prepare a fire for the burning of witches, they first kindled it with a bundle of sticks that were not actually sticks, the f a g g o t s of the time were gay men. They were considered of less value than witches. This probable origin of the epithet is what makes it so harmful.
There was an amusing incident when I was in high school and I was walking with a smoker past the vice principal who had served in Britain during the war. "Quit sucking on those f a g s."
[quote author=Nymann link=board=etymology;num=1047296917;start=0#11 date=03/11/03 at 06:19:13]In what "variants" are horns made? I know for the horn in F (the standard one), but I found someone mentioning horns in G, in B and in C. Horns in G [corni in sol] are used in Händel’s Alcina.
I wouldn’t know - I’m a clarinetist. Besides specifically using horn to refer to the French* horn, we generically use it to refer to any wind instrument.
~Silver
*(Just why is it called that? I could probably find it myself easily enough, but that would require effort.)
