Hello:
Heard something the other day which reminded me of a word from the DISTANT PAST.
Have tried several search engines to NO avail.

It sorta sounded as though it might be spelled as any of the following ...
 g-dem-ta-brust
 g-demp-ta-brust
 g-dempf-ta-brust
 ga-dempf-ta-brust
with the "g-d" pronounced as in "Gdansk"

Sorta got the idea that it was some food-stuff—possibly baked.

Possibly it was just another of grandfather’s word/phrases like
  "layover to catch meddlers".

Thoughts apprecaited..
Thanks,, /s/ Hugh

Sounds like Yiddish (and maybe German) for steamed, i.e., cooked in its own liquid, brisket (of beef).

The ge- prefix in German indicates, I think, an action performed. Dampf is German for steam. Brust is cognate with English ‘breast.’

Brust is cognate with English ‘breast.’

While I don’t have the answer, I think Agoraphile is on the right track.

On an entirely different subject: Don’t forget Brest, whose twin city is Bristol.  ;D

- PW

I agree with Agoraphile, except that you’d have to say what kind of breast it was: "gedämpfte Hühnerbrust" (chicken) or "gedämpfte Putenbrust" (turkey). I suppose you could have "gedämpfte Rinderbrust" (beef), but I don’t find a single mention of it on Google.

Ilka

[quote author=Ilka link=board=etymology;num=1058727119;start=0#3 date=07/21/03 at 14:22:41]I agree with Agoraphile, except that you’d have to say what kind of breast it was . . .

Then Yiddish it must be. Chicken breast, and by extension turkey breast, is called bylik or beylik in Yiddish, after the Russian word for white. Pork doesn’t appear on a traditional Jewish table, so that possibility is eliminated. Breast of veal is Kalbenerbrust, and lamb, being less commonly eaten, would also be specially identified. So logic leads to breast of beef, aka brisket.

[quote author=KatyBr link=board=etymology;num=1058727119;start=0#4 date=07/21/03 at 15:01:46]This is probably a stupid question, but can’t the Kind of meat wherther pork or poultry be understood.

I don’t have an answer for you, Katy. It just sounds strange without the kind of meat isn’t specified. Maybe it’s acceptable in Yiddish.

The ge- prefix in German indicates, I think, an action performed.

The ge- prefix has two different functions. In the example here, "gedämpft", it is used to created a tense, the same one we create in English by adding an "-ed", as in "steamed chicken".

The other functions is to turn a verb into a noun. Denken "to think" is changed to "thought" by adding a "Ge-": Gedanke. Some other examples are Gehör (hören), "hearing", Gefühl (fühlen), "feeling".

I can’t think of an example where this "Ge-" is preserved in English. Maybe it is newer grammar that developed after English split off.

Ilka

I can’t think of an example where this "Ge-" is preserved in English.

I can’t either. The Germanic and Old English "ge" dropped off, like the vestigial appendage it was. Mostly replaced by the wimpy -ed suffix in English past participles.

- PW

I looked and only a few like: ‘gemot’ -assembly and ‘geneat’ -that which is brought forth.

Apparently PW is right, we have lost another "vestigial."

Like we can’t afford it!

Sitran

Found one. The word enough originally had a "ge-".

From the Online Etymology of English:

enough - O.E. genog, a common Gmc. formation (cf. O.N. gnogr, O.Fris. enoch, Goth. ganohs, Ger. genug), from ge- "with, together" (also a participial, collective, intensive, or perfective prefix) + root -nah, from PIE *nak- "reach, attain" (cf. Skt. asnoti "reaches," Hittite ninikzi "lifts, raises," Lith. nesti "to bear, carry," L. nancisci "to obtain").

The most prominent among the surviving examples of O.E. ge-, the equivalent of L. com- and Mod.Ger. ge-, from PIE *kom- "beside, near, by, with." Understated sense of have had enough "have had too much" was in O.E. (which relied heavily on double negatives and understatement). Archaic enow is from the O.E. pl. adj. and was standard as the plural of enough until late 18c.

Ilka

Ilka wrote:

I can’t think of an example where this "Ge-" is preserved in English. Maybe it is newer grammar that developed after English split off.

Looks like it. Before the split, this function would have been filled by "be-", as in befall and befriend in English, and beantworten (answer) and begrenzen (limit) in German.

Ed

[quote author=Ilka link=board=etymology;num=1058727119;start=0#6 date=07/22/03 at 18:04:03]The ge- prefix has two different functions. In the example here, "gedämpft", it is used to created a tense, the same one we create in English by adding an "-ed", as in "steamed chicken".

Actually, the final t in gedämpft is part of the past tense formation as well, isn’t it?...  Equating to our -ed in English.

-Tim

You’ve got to look at Dutch pronunciation to sort this out. As you all know, Dutch is the old way of pronouncing everything  ;)

As Germanic developed, the "ge" became pronounced like "gh" in "light", still audible in the Berlin accent, and then became "hhe", where the double h represents a rolled aspirate (sounds like a Dyson vacuum cleaner), which value it retains in Dutch. This sound is a lot easier to forget about than the guttural "ge".

The final "t" sound, being harder to lose, stayed in the language in order to cause spelling problems for later generations.

German retains the guttural "ge" sound because Luther revamped the language in the 1500s and tried to get to what he considered to be a purer language without Latin influences, and this was one of the consequences.

The process is a bit like this, with apologies for phonetics:
read -> gered -> h’red -> read

[quote author=Palaeologos of Byzantium link=board=etymology;num=1058727119;start=0#13 date=09/03/03 at 16:36:40]You’ve got to look at Dutch pronunciation to sort this out. As you all know, Dutch is the old way of pronouncing everything  ;)

We are, after all, "Old Europe", aren’t we.