What can you guys make out of this article my aunt showed me from a chick magazine she was reading? A translation follows the Portuguese text.
Você já fez um auto-exame na pele? Se a resposta é não, pense na possibilidade de fazê-lo uma vez por mês, pelo mesmo. "As pessoas devem examinar constantemente a própria pele, sobretudo aquelas que já tiveram um melanoma", diz o dermatologista Hamilton Ometto Stolf, da Universidade Estadual Paulista, Unesp, em Botucatu (minha cidade natal!). Como procceder: na frente de um espelho, levante os braços e olhe o corpo na frente e atrás. Em seguida EXAMINE A REGIÃO GENITAL, AQUELA ENTRE OS DEDOS E O COURO CABELUDO. No caso deste (sic), peça ajuda, se precisar.
And a possible translation for the Portuguese-impaired:
Have you ever done a skin self-exam? If the answer is no, think about the possibility of doing it at least once a month. "People should constantly examine their own skin, especially those who have already had a melanoma", says dermatologist Hamilton Ometto Stolf, of São Paulo State University Unesp, in Botucatu (my hometown!). How to proceed: in front of a mirror, raise your arms and look at your body in the front and in the back. After that, EXAMINE THE GENITAL AREA, THAT ONE BETWEEN THE FINGERS (OR TOES) AND THE SCALP. In this case (sic), ask for help, if necessary.
I wrote to the magazine asking for clarification. That particular one I put in capital letters seems to be a part of human anatomy I’m not quite familiar with.
... there was never yet fair woman but she made mouths in a glass
it strikes me that Dr Stolf takes things a bit far. At any rate, I suggest two mirrors ; otherwise somebody’s going to get an awful crick in the neck, examining her back for melanomas….
In your quote, the confusion—in my opinion—is a result of the failure to use the comma to delimit each of the objects in the list. We had a discussion about this very point elsewhere in the Agora—some sources prefer not to use the comma before the final object in the list, while others prefer the comma between each object, including prior to the final one.
Is this a bit clearer?
EXAMINE A REGIÃO GENITAL, AQUELA ENTRE OS DEDOS, E O COURO CABELUDO.
You’re a genious, Tim, how did I think of that? The way they had written it made me think the elements that were set off by the commas were in fact an appositive of the genital area. Now it makes sense!
You rule even in Portuguese! When I have other doubts concerning Portuguese, I’ll make sure to ask you. ;)
Just kidding ! But if you want to get serious, BD, I should suggest that the demonstrative pronoun «AQUELA» refers back to «REGIÃO» and that the correct translation of the capitalised passage should thus be something like this : «examine the genital region and the area between the digits [i e, fingers and toes] and the scalp». But my Portuguese is rudimentary, based, as it is, solely on similarities with Italian, which, we have been told, is the oddest (most unique) of the Indo-European languages. So I may be misled….
M_Henri, you’re right, I hadn’t seen that. I must not be thinking straight today. The New Year fireworks must have wreacked havoc with the clockwork in my head! Now what should I think of that passage? Maybe some other agoran will make a suggestion or I’ll get a reply from the magazine, whatever happens first.
On a second thought, aquela could be a demonstrative pronoun replacing region, so saying region again wouldn’t be necessary. My mind is slow, I’d better not post today, otherwise I could regret it later.
I don’t know if it’s me today or nobody seems to be using commas right, and they are leading me astray. When I read "De haber estado abierta esa puerta se hubiera evitado la muerte de mucha gente", found in fire in Argentina, first I thought If it had been open, that door would have avoided (itself) the death of many people, but then how can a door have that in mind, then I read it again and concluded If that door had been open, the death of many people would have been avoided, so I move that a comma be used like this: De haber estado abierta esa puerta, se hubiera evitado la muerte de mucha gente.
Brazilian dude
De haber estado abierta esa puerta se hubiera evitado la muerte de mucha gente.
I’m sorry, but that sentence is perfectly correct, BD. Maybe you’ve been blinded by that "obscene" lack of commas…
The translation is indeed your second rendering: "If that door had been open, the death of many people would have been avoided."
Your first interpretation misses the impersonal "se". That is the feature which gives the phrase a passive meaning, so that the door doesn’t perform any action at all. Adding commas or not is, in any case, irrelevant/facultative.
I beg to differ with you, Wondering Spaniard. The comma would be required to separate the apodosis from the protasis, and as Tim put it, it would make it much clearer and visually more appealing.
The what? ??? My goodness… I wish I were more learned…
BD:
And I hadn’t overlooked that se!
Then your translation is simply wrong. I assure you that no Spanish native-speaker would understand that phrase with the door as active subject. Therefore, a comma, in order to separate the aposed complement from the rest of the phrase in its normal order(apodosis and protasis?), wouldn’t be necessary; but quite right anyway.
WS, you should have read what I wrote before about havoc being wreaked in my head but I still believe the commas are not only desired, but even required, since the protasis (the if-clause) comes before the apodosis (the result clause). If those two clauses were reverted, then the comma wouldn’t be necessary, because the conjunction si would make for a smooth transition between the two.
I don’t think that this is a true conditional sentense in structure:
The death of many people would have been avoided from that door having been open.
Not good English, I know, but as you can see there is not a conjugated verb in the "pseudo-protasis."
"De haber estado abrieta esa puerta…." is a prepositional phrase, not a true protasis!
A comma is unnecessary here? I don’t know the rules for Spanish, but they are, for the most part, like English. This is, after all, a pretty big PP, but we, Americans, love the odd comma more than not. I know I do!
