Quote: "Num outro texto, a jornalista Lisandra Paraguassú escreve sobre as contrariedades na afirmação internacional do nossso idioma comum em resultado da inexistência, até hoje, de uma ortografia comum aos oitos países da CPLP - ao contrário, por exemplo, do que se passa com o espanhol:
«Essa diferença dificulta, por exemplo, que o português possa ser uma das línguas oficiais da Organização das Nações Unidas (ONU). Também cria problemas para o ensino do português como língua estrangeira." Unquote
Para quem lê português mas não está familiarizado com a nossa nomenclatura gramatical, eis algumas explicações:
palavra oxítona - palavra acentuada na última sílaba (o acento é prosódico, e não necessariamente gráfico): café, limão, sutil, etc.
palavra paroxítona - palavra acentuda na penúltima sílaba: útil, tórax, fácil, etc.
palavra proparoxítona - palavra acentuada na antepenúltima sílaba: último, número, gráfico, etc.
I’m not much in favor of the reform, especially because there will still be some words that will be spelled differently, such amnistia (Portugal) and anistia (Brazil). A lot of older people (like my grandma) still can’t spell according to the new reform (which dates from 1970 something) and there’ll be much more confusion. But as I said in the Rechtschreibreform, it’s not up to me to agree or not, I just have to follow it if I want to write in the standard language.
How do you insert that white frame around the text you’ve quoted from somewhere else on the Internet again? I’ve been editing and editing my post to see if I can do that, but I can’t.
«Essa diferença dificulta, por exemplo, que o português possa ser uma das línguas oficiais da Organização das Nações Unidas (ONU). Também cria problemas para o ensino do português como língua estrangeira.
Well, my understanding of the Portuguese relies entirely on my Spanish, French and Italian knowledge. In this case, I am not certain whether the reforms will take place or not, or if rather they shall be a bit too inconsistent.
«Depois de 14 anos – escreve a jornalista Lisandra Paraguassú –, a reforma ortográfica do português pode estar, finalmente, próxima de entrar em vigor. Aprovada em 1990 pelos oito integrantes da Comunidade dos Países de Língua Portuguesa (CPLP), até hoje a reforma, que pode abolir o trema em tranqüilo e o hífen em pára-quedas (que ainda perderia o acento), ainda não saiu do papel. No Brasil, todos os passos burocráticos para a ratificação do acordo já foram dados. Estão a caminho em Portugal e Cabo Verde. Conforme um acerto feito em julho, a ratificação por parte desses três países será suficiente para implantar a reforma. Os outros cinco países - Angola, Moçambique, Guiné-Bissau, São Tomé e Príncipe e Timor Leste - poderão aderir depois.
Well, it’s up to the Portuguese and the Caboverdians now. Brazil has already ratified it, and, as the text says, you just need three countries out of eight to make it effective. Now, if you’re looking for a day, month and year, I know as much as you do, which is nada.
There’s a lot of confusion concerning this spelling reform. I saw a reporter on the TV (Globo…) saying that, after the banishment of the umlauts (we use them over the letter U when it’s placed after a G or a Q to demonstrate it (the U) is pronounced) we won’t say "leenGWEEsuh" for lingüiça anymore but (leeGEEsuh - G as in "goat"). A lot of people seem to think the same way, as if the writing systems should rule the language, when they are in fact just its servants.
Right on, Wilson Quinette, but you have to agree with me that it’ll be harder to properly pronounce words with que’s, gue’s, qui’s and gui’s that are unfamiliar to us if the dieresis is taken from them.
That would be like having a ‘spelling reform’ movement to simplify Italian spelling, so that ‘g’ is always hard, thus eliminating the ‘gh’ spelling for [g]. And the ‘gi’ spelling for [d[sup]j[/sup]] would be replaced with ‘j’...
No, Tim, I don’t think it’s the same case, since our spelling reform affects accent marks and a few mute consonants (some of which may have a sound for the Portuguese, that’s why the new rule says it’s okay if they keep it in their spelling) rather than digraphs.
[quote author=Brazilian_dude link=board=translate;num=1104886477;start=0#9 date=01/05/05 at 10:10:57]Right on, Wilson Quinette, but you have to agree with me that it’ll be harder to properly pronounce words with que’s, gue’s, qui’s and gui’s that are unfamiliar to us if the dieresis is taken from them.
Brazilian dude
Hey, Dude, I don’t believe there are many words bearing umlauted gue-gui-que-qui’s which are unknown to most of the people. But what surprises me most is the tendency most people seem to demonstrate to go thinking we’ll have to change the way we pronounce the words affected by the reform, what’s obviously not true.
If it were up to me, we would readopt the 19th century spelling rules, which determined that tísico was spelled phthysico, for instance.
[quote author=Brazilian_dude link=board=translate;num=1104886477;start=0#11 date=01/05/05 at 10:51:09]No, Tim, I don’t think it’s the same case, since our spelling reform affects accent marks and a few mute consonants (some of which may have a sound for the Portuguese, that’s why the new rule says it’s okay if they keep it in their spelling) rather than digraphs.
Hmm… But based on what WQ had posted in an earlier response, these accent marks can actually affect the pronunciation of the word itself:
...after the banishment of the umlauts (we use them over the letter U when it’s placed after a G or a Q to demonstrate it (the U) is pronounced) we won’t say "leenGWEEsuh" for lingüiça anymore but (leeGEEsuh - G as in "goat").
How is that structurally different than changing the spelling?
In the case of the dieresis it does (or it shouldn’t, as WQ and I agree) and also in the placing of stress by accent marks it does (but again it shouldn’t).
It won’t change the pronunciation, Tim. The thing is that our language is phonetic for most parts. It’ll be harder for us to enunciate a word properly if they take our beloved squiggles. I think we’ll have to go to the dictionary more often just to check the pronunciation, something that we aren’t used to doing simply because there’s no need to.
