According to a linguistic map of European languages in the revised edition of "The Atlas of Languages" by Bernard Comrie, Stephen Matthews and Mary Polinsky the Sámi  (or Lappish) language is now spoken only in the northernmost parts of Norway and European Russia near the Arctic Ocean. Does anyone know how accurate this is and what the status of Lappish really is in Sweden and Finland? Certainly, many Lapps still live in the far north of Sweden and Finland. Could their language really be totally extinct in those regions by
now?

The Lapp (Sámi)  language belongs to the Finno-Ugric family of languages however, it might not be their original language. They were conquered and taxed by the Finns beginning in the 1st century A.D. which may explain the similarities of Sami to Finnish. However DNA analysis indicates that some of their nearest relatives in Europe are the Greeks and Sardinians who are hardly Finno-Ugrian speaking.  ::)

"only in the northernmost parts of Norway and European Russia near the Arctic Ocean" is very misinformed. Comrie normally is much better at facts. In Sweden and Norway, Sápmi, Sw. Sameland, extends past the geographical midpoint of Sweden. For example, the southernmost Swedish Sámi "village" (sameby, an official word, among other things implying extensive rights concerning reindeer farming), is located at 62 deg N (Sweden extends from ca 55 to 69 deg N).

It is difficult to give a number of speakers of Sámegiella (cf. Finnish kieli = language), because everybody will be at least bilingual (besides all languages taught in school, there’s probably lots of Swedish Sámi who in addition to Sámegiella and Swedish know Norwegian and/or Finnish). For Sweden, credible numbers for speakers are some 20 000 to 40 000.

Sámegiella, together with four other languages, was rather recently (2000) awarded the status of official historical minority language. This means, among other things, that Sámi persons living in the very northern municipalities of Kiruna (which used to be, and might still be, the largest city in the world, area-wise), Gällivare, Jokkmokk and Arjeplog have a right to get explanations from authoritites in their home language.

The choice of the other four languages is a very interesting thing, politically and linguistically.

They are Finnish, Torne Valley Finnish (Meänkieli), Romani chib (all forms) and—Jiddisch (our spelling).

There have been arguments that Sámegiella should have been split into at least three separate languages, and that Torne Valley Finnish should be accomodated under Finnish. Nobody seems to question the legitimacy of Romani chib.

Quite a few people think that Jiddish doesn’t meet the EU criteria for official historical minority languages, including myself, but OTOH I applaud any effort to protect that interesting language. But it should be a safe bet that Jiddish isn’t the home language of even one person in Sweden. If you stretch "speakers" to include people with only elementary understanding of Jiddish, the number might be towards 5 000.

Regarding the origin of the Sámi people, archaeologists, geneticists and linguists now think that Fenno-Ugric people probably migrated to Fennoscandia from the south, some 6000-8000 years ago, follwing the ice regression. I never heard any theory that they originally might have had another language.

I’m not very interested in DNA comparisons in discussions on language. But I should mention that there’s a unique blood group, A2, very frequently occurring among Sámi people, but not found anywhere else in Europe.

Jiddisch=Yiddish, right?
And Romani chib, is the language of "gypsies", correct?
Are the two forms of finnish mentioned mutually intelligible? Are they similiar to British VS. AMerican VS. Australian, etc. english? I’ve heard Romani used for the peoples formally called gypsies, but what is "chib"?

J

Anders,

Thank you for the information on Saami (Lappish / Lapponic) in Sweden.

From the literature I’ve read, I have found that there are thirteen dialects of Lapponic spoken altogether. Four of them are exclusively in Northern Russian and seven of them straddle the border between Norway and Sweden.

The language has dramatically declined and in a short time too. A look through the 1940 "Goode’s Atlas" reveals that it was spoken in most of northwestern Sweden and northern Finland at the time. In the 1960 issue of "Goode’s Atlas" it is nearly missing in Finland and exists in northern Sweden only in tiny pockets scattered throughout the region.

Unlike their language, however, the Saami (Lapp) people have not been  disappearing. There are many people of Scandinavian heritage even in the northern United States where I live, calling themselves Norwegians and Swedes,  who still have some Lapp or Finnish ancestry too. A similar situation exists in the United States with the Scotch and the Irish whose indigenous languages are extinct or nearly so yet they are quite numerous in the American population.  :)

Sami (or Saami) is also alive and well in Finland. In many areas of Finland, road signs are bilingual; the second language is usually Swedish, but in Finnish Lapland it’s Saami.

It’s not just accepted, but actively encouraged. FILI (the Finnish Literature Information Centre) "promotes the translation of literature, raises awareness of Finnish literature abroad and provides financial support for the translation into other languages of both fiction and non-fiction written in Finnish, Finland-Swedish and Saami."

Noddy

[quote author=J_22_M link=board=translate;num=1121414037;start=0#2 date=07/15/05 at 11:17:44]Jiddisch=Yiddish, right?
And Romani chib, is the language of "gypsies", correct?
Are the two forms of finnish mentioned mutually intelligible? Are they similiar to British VS. AMerican VS. Australian, etc. english? I’ve heard Romani used for the peoples formally called gypsies, but what is "chib"?

Right.
Correct.
More than that difference, I think. Differences seem to include not only vocabulary, even basic words like some pronouns, but pronunciation and syntax as well.

Regarding the language of the Roma, it’s ‘The Language of the Roma’ = Romani chib. Romani is thus the adjective referring to the people, and chib is ‘language’.

The language has dramatically declined and in a short time too.

I’m not so sure about that. My 1924 dictionary believes in 30.000 speakers, so at least in absolute numbers there seems to be little change. But I repeat the caveat, "It is difficult to give a number of speakers ... because everybody will be at least bilingual." And the new law surely will help its survival.

BTW, "Its"? The differences between dialects are so important that several experts, especially in Finland, prefer to say that there are 7 or 8 Sámi languages. Two varieties no more than some 750 km apart may be mutually unintelligible. The differences concern real basic features, like sound, morphology and vocabulary inventories.

Oh, so chib is the Romani marker for langauge. Cool. I find the whole Roma culture so interesting. The traveling aspect of their lives…just fascinating. Do you know of any resources or have any information on Romani? I don’t believe there is one language, but many dialects of it?

J