My mother taught me that the above usage was correct. However, it seems that common usage is now nice, nicer, nicest. The ‘words’ ‘nicer’ and ‘nicest’ really grate on my ears! My OED does not list nicer or nicest.
I always thought that "better" and "best" were the comparative and the superlative forms of "good" and "well".
"Nice work." = "Good work." so maybe this is where your usage comes from? "She was doing a nice job, but now she is doing even better."
I would say that it should be "nice", "nicer", "nicest" in most cases. "She is such a nice girl, but your ex was much nicer." My OED also says nothing on this, perhaps Grant’s super nice OED will say more. Grant?
nice
Pronunciation: ‘nIs
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, foolish, wanton, from Old French, from Latin nescius ignorant, from nescire not to know—more at NESCIENCE
Date: 14th century
Inflected Form(s): nic.er; nic.est
1 obsolete a : WANTON, DISSOLUTE b : COY, RETICENT
2 a : showing fastidious or finicky tastes : PARTICULAR b : exacting in requirements or standards : PUNCTILIOUS
3 : possessing, marked by, or demanding great or excessive precision and delicacy
4 obsolete : TRIVIAL
5 a : PLEASING, AGREEABLE b : well-executed c : APPROPRIATE, FITTING
6 a : socially acceptable : WELL-BRED b : VIRTUOUS, RESPECTABLE
7 : POLITE, KIND
synonym see CORRECT
- nice adverb
- nice.ly adverb
- nice.ness noun
[Emphasis added]
Note that the senses I use it in are 5 and 6. Aren’t wanton and coy/reticent almost opposites? Only in English . . .
"Do you like this dress." "Yes, but this one’s much nicer."
"You look lovely in those glasses." "That’s the nicest thing anyone ever said to me!"
[quote author=bmassey link=board=grammar;num=1032144755;start=0#1 date=09/15/02 at 23:32:34]I always thought that "better" and "best" were the comparative and the superlative forms of "good" and "well".
The OED defines better and best as the comparative and superlative of good. Nice doesn’t get a look in.
[quote author=bmassey link=board=grammar;num=1032144755;start=0#1 date=09/15/02 at 23:32:34]I would say that it should be "nice", "nicer", "nicest" in most cases. "She is such a nice girl, but your ex was much nicer." My OED also says nothing on this, perhaps Grant’s super nice OED will say more. Grant?
The OED doesn’t list comparatives and superlatives as headwords if they’re formed in the standard -er, -est way. But both nicer and nicest are attested frequently in the illustrative quotations under nice - 9 for nicer and 17 for nicest.
What I love about "nice" is the fact that the current meaning has completely changed from the original. The OED2 online gives the first two (obsolete) definitions as Foolish, stupid, senseless and Wanton, loose-mannered; lascivious. It’s a long road from there to Agreeable; that one derives pleasure or satisfaction from with some fascinating (Not obvious or readily apprehended; difficult to decide or settle; demanding close consideration or thought) stops in between.
One of my fave and formative English teachers forbade his pupils to use "nice"—he said that it was a term used in judging show dogs to describe the degree of bow to dogs’ legs, and therefore should be avoided in polite company. (I’ll leave you to imagine the view a judge has to take in order to determine the nicety of the hounds.) Perhaps he was only bloody minded about usage that got on his nerves, though; he also forbade us to begin written sentences with "There is" or "There are." Passive voice construction—can’t blame him.
Right—Grant, plaidland, Derek, Brits anywhere—what’s the connotation of "nice" in Britain when talking about food? There’s a funny word—I know when to ask, "Is it nice?" at a restaurant with Brits, but really have no idea what I’m asking. Just making the appropriate sounds, and that one’s got me stymied.
[quote author=Dr. Audra Himes link=board=grammar;num=1032144755;start=0#7 date=09/17/02 at 23:04:23]Right—Grant, plaidland, Derek, Brits anywhere—what’s the connotation of "nice" in Britain when talking about food? There’s a funny word—I know when to ask, "Is it nice?" at a restaurant with Brits, but really have no idea what I’m asking
It’s really just a rather weak way of asking "Is it enjoyable?" or perhaps "Do you like it?". (We will just have to hope that the usual international opinion of British cuisine does not suggest that the answer must necessarily be "No" )
I also had an English teacher who forbade "nice", I seem to remember him associating a "true" meaning of "precise", but maybe it was "punctilious" and I remember it wrongly. I think part of the point was to encourage us to think of something more interesting to say, "nice" often having a connotation of faint praise.
Conversely, "Not nice" seems to be usable for any meaning from "I don’t like this very much" to "That’s totally disgusting/replusive". Even more curiously, "Not very nice" tends to be a somewhat weaker expression of disapproval. Am I right in this, or is it my imagination?
I don’t think I ever say "Is it nice?" Nice has such a strong connotation of damning with faint praise it seems odd to deliberately elicit a reply in those terms.
When you show someone your new shoes, the last thing you want to hear is "Oooh ... they’re nice." (= they do nothing for me at all.) When my mother would say, of a new girlfriend, "She seems nice" it meant "I can’t find anything to actively dislike about her."
[quote author=DerekB link=board=grammar;num=1032144755;start=0#8 date=09/18/02 at 10:40:29]Even more curiously, "Not very nice" tends to be a somewhat weaker expression of disapproval. Am I right in this, or is it my imagination?
I agree. Funny sort of litotes - Brad may be able to offer a more precise rhetorical term. There’s an analoguous construction in Scotland, with the intensifier awfy (= awful). There are, for instance, three stages of illness in a Scot’s vocabulary:
1) No’ awfy well (= mildly unwell)
2) No’ well (= ill)
3) Awfy no’ well (= very ill)
First thing a general practitioner (family doctor) in Scotland has to learn is the difference between 1) and 3) when they’re presented on the phone in the middle of the night. 1) involves an appointment for the following morning; 3) involves a fast drive and an ambulance.
[quote author=granthutchison link=board=grammar;num=1032144755;start=0#9 date=09/18/02 at 15:00:34]I don’t think I ever say "Is it nice?" Nice has such a strong connotation of damning with faint praise it seems odd to deliberately elicit a reply in those terms.
When you show someone your new shoes, the last thing you want to hear is "Oooh ... they’re nice." (= they do nothing for me at all.) When my mother would say, of a new girlfriend, "She seems nice" it meant "I can’t find anything to actively dislike about her."
Ah, but if you tell a girl she has "nice gams," she may slug you, but she knows you probably weren’t being facetious, but comparing her favorably to Betty Grable. ;D
As for "Oooh ... they’re nice." it depends on the way you say it. The tone and inflection of the spoken word convey much more than the written word can.
[quote author=granthutchison link=board=grammar;num=1032144755;start=0#11 date=09/18/02 at 19:32:53]
Sorry - why would I tell her she had "nice schools of whales"?
Grant
Nice LEGS you’d be telling her, Grant! Nice LEGS!
"SCHOOL OF WHALES" IS THE SECOND DEFINITION OF THE SECOND SENSE, SILLY! ;D
Sheesh!
[sup]1[/sup]gam
Pronunciation: gam
Function: noun
Etymology: probably ultimately from Lingua Franca gamba leg, from Italian, from Late Latin
Date: 1781 slang : LEG
[sup]2[/sup]gam
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps short for obsolete gammon (talk)
Date: 1846
1 : a visit or friendly conversation at sea or ashore especially between whalers
2 : a school of whales
"What page are you on?"
"Pag a ninny."
"Pag a ninny? You idiot! That’s Page Nine!"
—- The Three Stooges
[quote author=Stargzer link=board=grammar;num=1032144755;start=0#12 date=09/19/02 at 00:32:38] "What page are you on?"
"Pag a ninny."
"Pag a ninny? You idiot! That’s Page Nine!"
—- The Three Stooges
There’s an old joke about some fellows nominating candidates for the title of ‘world’s greatest lover.’ Discussion ensues, and the names of Don Juan and Casanova are put forth.
Then somebody says, "No, no, it’s Pippilini."
"Pippilini?" exclaim the others.
"Sure," replies the first, and points to a newspaper headline: Pipeline laid from coast to coast.
[quote author=granthutchison link=board=grammar;num=1032144755;start=0#9 date=09/18/02 at 15:00:34]I agree. Funny sort of litotes - Brad may be able to offer a more precise rhetorical term.
I would probably go with litotes. I was thinking meiosis (more of less the opposite of hyperbole) but litote more specifically minimizes by denying the opposite.
[quote author=Agoraphile link=board=grammar;num=1032144755;start=0#13 date=09/19/02 at 10:39:33] . . . "Sure," replies the first, and points to a newspaper headline: Pipeline laid from coast to coast.
Pippillini indeed! It wouldn’t be such a big deal if you’re talking about coast-to-coast in England, but coast-to-coast on the Eurasian continent or Africa (north to south), now that would be someone to reckon with.
)