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People: singular or plural?
Posted: 04 July 2003 10:59 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Since persons is the plural of person, and peoples is the plural of people, doesn’t that make people singular?
Singular referring  to one mass of people.

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Posted: 04 July 2003 01:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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doesn’t that make people singular?

No, but it makes "a people" singular.

- PW

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Posted: 05 July 2003 10:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Since ‘a people’ is singular, then would it be correct english to say "A people is good," ?

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Posted: 05 July 2003 11:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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For goodness sake, why in the world do people constantly try to reduce language to a logical system.  It is only quasi-logical at best.  

‘People’ conjures up a plural image, thus we say "people are," "people go," and "people think."

"A people" is a conherent group, distinct from other peoples, therefore it deserves (formally) a singular verb, but I think that I would use a plural verb naturally.

‘A people with a distinctive language and culture, such as the Kurds, deserves an independant state.’

‘A people deserves a state.’

But:

‘The Kurdish people deserve an independent state.’

"A people is good."

seems incomplete, and doesn’t mean ‘people are good’.

‘A people is good, if its culture emphasizes charity, compassion and tolerance.’

Sitran

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Posted: 05 July 2003 11:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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I think I’ll just play it safe from now on, and use person, person’s, persons, and persons’, avoiding use of the word people altogether.

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Posted: 05 July 2003 11:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Avoidance will only increase the affectedness of your speech patterns.  Something people should avoid, if they want their words to be understood by other people.

People are very distracted by odd grammatical constructions.

Naturalness, first!  Formality, second! Logic, third!

Sitran

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Posted: 05 July 2003 04:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Naturalness, first!  Formality, second! Logic, third!

Very nice, Sitran. I’m not entirely convinced about formality before logic, though. But I’m open to argument. Certainly, in areas of uncertainty, I don’t think abstinence is ever the answer.  :)

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Posted: 07 July 2003 06:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Can formality and logic be separated?  Aren’t they interrelated, at least?

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Posted: 07 July 2003 10:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Formality and logic should be intertwined, but one can be formal and yet still illogical.

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Posted: 07 July 2003 12:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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By naturalness, I meant "whatever comes out unrehearsed." Often substandard.

By formality, I meant conforming to the standard grammar at the price of sounding alittle snobbish, but with the reward of clarity.

By logic, I meant things like not switching from ‘one’ to ‘you’ to ‘one’ again, keeping consistence with number and person.  Using grammar to express things logically, without demanding grammar to be logical.

An example from Spanish.

Some Spanish speakers will say things like:

‘Son la una.’ which is WRONG! (but natural). "It is one o’clock."

‘Es la una.’ which is Right! (correct and natural for me). "It is one o’clock."

But not ‘Son las unas’ which would seem logical with a plural verb, but is neither natural nor formal.

‘Son la una’ seems to defy logic, like ‘people are’ and ‘la gente son’, but never the less are natural.

Sitran

 

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