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inversion in conditional sentences
Posted: 14 June 2004 09:56 PM   [ Ignore ]
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When should I use If-clause and when INVERSION in conditional sentences? Is there any rule for it? Thanks for help- smilesmile

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Posted: 15 June 2004 11:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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If I hadn’t had a barbeque and too much wine, I might have realised that all previous conditions had been irreparably inverted. If-clauses usually appear in all conditional sentences in most straightforward grammars. Elf is particularly fond of numbering them - I think he’s affraid one might go missing in the night. The loss of a conditional may lead to a close-quarters engagement between an imperative and a reflexive pronoun. Inversion doesn’t occur in these standard conditionals because they try avoid any hint of negativity.

- Garzuggle.

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Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.&&-The First Letter of Saint Paul to the Corinthians, chapter 13.

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Posted: 17 June 2004 01:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Kasia,
Do you mean the inversion in conditionals this way?

Had he not been to a barbecue and drunk so much wine, he might have thought of this. wink

It means the same as:

If he had not been to a barbecue ...

Had you been here earlier, we could have gone to dinner.

If you had been here earlier ...

When do we use it? Please correct me if I’m wrong (as if I had to mention that! wink ), but I feel that we use this form in situations where we wish to express or emphasize our displeasure. Of course tone of voice has a lot to do with this.

In non-conditional sentences, negative inversion seems to express surprise or to emphasize the situation.

Never (as in NEVER IN MY LIFE!!) have I seen such a horrible hat.

I have never seen such a horrible hat.

Not only is she intelligent, but she is also beautiful.

She is not only intelligent, but she is also beautiful.

Trust this helps.

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Posted: 17 June 2004 02:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Thanks RK smile very much. Is it true that if I use the conditional sentence with inversion it is much more formal?  ??? Thanks everybody smile

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“The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.”&&Horace; Walpole &&

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Posted: 17 June 2004 06:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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I’m sorry I wasn’t on the ball with this first time around. I don’t think I really understood the question. However, veneration is due to RK for her wonderful answer.

You can only form a conditional sentence with inversion rather than the usual if-clause if ‘had’ (past tense) is the operator.

  If he had been here…
  Had he been here…
  If she had played…
  Had she played…
  If she had been told…
  Had she been told…

The connexion here is that all the clauses are in the past perfect (creating what some grammars call the third conditional).

Other auxilliary verbs cannot be inverted in the same way:
  If I am playing football…
  *Am I playing football… (this sounds like a question, not a conditional).
  If she did play for the Polish national team…
  *Did she play for the Polish national team… (again it sounds like a question and not a conditional)

The verb ‘have’ has to be in the past tense:
  If he has played before…
  *Has he played before… (again it looks like a question)

Inversion can happen when ‘had’ is the only verb of the if-clause, too:
  If he had a pair of decent football boots…
  Had he a pair of decent football boots…

There you go: if ‘had’ (past tense) is the operator or only verb in an if-clause, the clause can use inversion.

I feel that forming an conditional by inversion is rather formal, but it does occur quite frequently in colloquial speech. One of the mistakes I often make, when I form conditionals by inversion, is leaving a ghost ‘have’ behind (this is the so-called ‘plupluperfect’). THis structure is wrong, but I can’t help doing it:

  If he had joined us…
  *Had he have joined us…
Or even:
  *Had he of joined us…

- Garzo.

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Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.&&-The First Letter of Saint Paul to the Corinthians, chapter 13.

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Posted: 17 June 2004 07:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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[quote author=Garzo link=board=grammar;num=1087297015;start=0#4 date=06/17/04 at 15:14:50]You can only form a conditional sentence with inversion rather than the usual if-clause if ‘had’ (past tense) is the operator.

  If he had been here…
  Had he been here…
  If she had played…
  Had she played…
  If she had been told…
  Had she been told…

Or if the sentence is a conditional, to begin with.

If he were here…
  Were here here…
If she were playing…
  Were she playing…
If we were told…
  Were we told…

-Tim

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For myself, I find I become less cynical rather than more… and realize that men’s hearts are not often as bad as their acts, and very seldom as bad as their words. - JRR Tolkien

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Posted: 17 June 2004 07:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Once more I have failed to venerate the subjunctive: I just didn’t think of it. However, I don’t think you can do these inversions in the indicative mood. Perhaps the inversions in ‘had’ are ghost subjunctives too… ::)

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Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.&&-The First Letter of Saint Paul to the Corinthians, chapter 13.

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Posted: 17 June 2004 08:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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[quote author=Garzo link=board=grammar;num=1087297015;start=0#6 date=06/17/04 at 16:49:24]Perhaps the inversions in ‘had’ are ghost subjunctives too… ::)

You have to be wary of those ghost subjunctives they’re forever coming back to haunt you!  :)

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