Agora Forums
 
   
 
Talk….
Posted: 05 November 2004 04:37 AM   [ Ignore ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  131
Joined  2004-01-25

How should I say: Talk TO or Talk WITH someone?  ???
Thanks in advance and HELLO for everybody smile

 Signature 

“The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.”&&Horace; Walpole &&

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 November 2004 06:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1138
Joined  2004-04-02

Hello again, Kasia. You may use either.

One implication of talk to is that you are expressing opinions or giving directives without expecting (or welcoming) reciprocal speech from the audience. To "give someone a good talking to" is to berate him.

Talking with someone definitely indicates a conversation, although it can also be a euphemism. If an authority figure (or a spouse!) announces that he or she "would like to talk with you" it is not a good sign…  :)

Ultimately, talking to is as used as often as talking with to indicate general conversation among native speakers in my part of the US.

gailr

 Signature 

“Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”—Douglas Adams

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 November 2004 05:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  917
Joined  2003-11-20

       Dear Kaisa,

       I totally concur with what Gailr said in the previous post. I would just like to add that sometimes "talk" is a substitute for "speak" in informal speech. e.g.

      1) "Hello, I would  like to SPEAK with the manager, please." (Formal)

      2) "Hey, I’d like to TALK to the manager, (please)".
           (Informal)

      1) "I heard that Steve SPOKE with Jeff this morning about his frequent tardiness . You know, he could get fired."  (Formal)      
       
      2)  I heard that Steve TALKED to Jeff this morning about  comin’ in late all the time.  So he’s walkin’ on thin ice." (Informal)
       
      Distinctions between formal and informal usage of this kind  probably exist in almost all languages. I’ve seen numerous examples published in linguistic journals  from some of the better-studied foreign languages like French, Spanish and German.

 Signature 

b

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 November 2004 01:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3773
Joined  2002-08-01

Kasia, I agree that speak is frequently used in place of talk, but to my ear, and to my knowledge, there is no formal/informal dichotomy to their usage.

I have a story to share about the use of ‘talk’ that I had forgotten about until just now.

There are many churches with congregation members that are uncomfortable with having women as leaders in the worship service, let alone as preaching ministers.  (Some churches even have formal rules about this.)  My wife knew someone when she was in seminary who had gone back to her conservative church to preach as an intern, and after the service she received this qualified compliment from an older lady in the congregation: "That was such a nice ‘talk’ you gave this morning."

She couldn’t bring herself to call the female intern’s sermon a sermon by name…

-Tim

 Signature 

For myself, I find I become less cynical rather than more… and realize that men’s hearts are not often as bad as their acts, and very seldom as bad as their words. - JRR Tolkien

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 November 2004 04:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  567
Joined  2004-05-21

Erm…

I think the only difference between "talk" and "speak" I was actually taught is that you talk/speak with/to someone, but can only speak a language. On the other hand, it seems to me now that use has given me a notion of formality/seriousness.

Don’t speak to me! = Don’t dare to address me!

Don’t talk to me! = Your words don’t interest me!

Regards,

           WS.

 Signature 

[I]Nuestras horas son minutos / cuando esperamos saber / y siglos cuando sabemos / lo que se puede aprender.[/I] Antonio Machado

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 November 2004 06:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3773
Joined  2002-08-01

OK, I’ll bite.  Here are the Online Etymology Dictionary’s descriptions for each:

Speak:

O.E. specan, variant of sprecan "to speak" (class V strong verb; past tense spræc, pp. sprecen), from P.Gmc. *sprekanan (cf. O.S. sprecan, O.Fris. spreka, M.Du. spreken, O.H.G. sprehhan, Ger. sprechen "to speak," O.N. spraki "rumor, report"), cognate with L. spargere "to strew" (speech as a "scattering" of words; see sparse). The -r- began to drop out in Late West Saxon and was gone by mid-12c., perhaps from infl. of Dan. spage "crackle," in a slang sense of "speak" (cf. crack in slang senses having to do with speech, e.g. wisecrack, cracker, all it’s cracked up to be). Rare variant forms without -r- also are found in M.Du. (speken) and O.H.G. (spehhan). Not the primary word for "to speak" in O.E. ("Beowulf" prefers maþelian, from mæþel "assembly, council," from root of metan "to meet;" cf. Gk. agoreuo "to speak," originally "speak in the assembly," from agora "assembly").

[There was a very interesting parenthetical note that I took the liberty to underline for everyone… smile]

Talk:

12c., talken, probably a dim. or frequentative form related to M.E. tale "story," ultimately from the same source as tale and replacing that word as a verb. E.Fris. has talken "to talk, chatter, whisper." To talk shop is from 1854. To talk turkey is from 1824, supposedly from an elaborate joke about a swindled Indian. Talk show first recorded 1965; talk radio is from 1985. Talking head is from 1968. Talkie "motion picture with sound" is from 1928.

So, there you have it.  ‘Talk’ is related to ‘tell’ and ‘tale’, and ‘speak’ is related to ‘speech’ and ‘wisecrack’. raspberry

In essence, it would appear that ‘speak’, having been primarily the verb of choice for use with large crowds, does derive from a more formal historical use.  ‘Talk’ was the verb used with smaller groups.

However, I still stand by my statement that, in today’s use, ‘speak’ and ‘talk’ are basically interchangeable.

-Tim

 Signature 

For myself, I find I become less cynical rather than more… and realize that men’s hearts are not often as bad as their acts, and very seldom as bad as their words. - JRR Tolkien

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 November 2004 09:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1233
Joined  2004-04-29

I have felt for a long time that it is worth using the phrase talk with instead of talk to to indicate a two-way conversation. I think I hear talk to more often, and a friend described talk with as an ‘americanism’. I feel that that this use of with has a definite psychological effect on a listener: it is an invitation to open dialogue. Perhaps this wouldn’t have the same effect in a dialect where the construction is used more frequently.

I think speak is the use of language, and talk is the message given in language. Therefore, talk with would be the best construction to describe consensual conversation. Likewise, speak to has the nuance of a more formal and utilitarian conversation.

- Garzo.

 Signature 

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.&&-The First Letter of Saint Paul to the Corinthians, chapter 13.

Profile