My dictionary gives these similar definitions (the threefold meaning) but fails to distinguish between them.
Is their etymology similar or different?
Then I got to wondering; why has this series only 3 members: single double treble ...
while this has many; ?, dual?, triple, quadruple, quintuple…and so on
(I am not sure about the 1st two members).
[quote author=brynbaker link=board=grammar;num=1117108961;start=0#0 date=05/26/05 at 08:02:41]
Then I got to wondering; why has this series only 3 members: single double treble ...
while this has many; ?, dual?, triple, quadruple, quintuple…and so on
Hi,
Thanks for opening an interesting topic!
Just curious about your grouping: to me,
"dual axle" goes with "treble hook"
and
"double axel" goes with "triple axel"
"double header" goes with "triple crown"
In the first approximation the rule is very simple:
1.In the real world or our imagination we observe objects, which have two identical parts (aspects) (O1)
2. The objects with 2 differing parts or aspects of the same kind (O2)
O1 examples:
double bottom
double window
double bed
double track
double chin
double door
double track
I had never heard the "triple" meaning of treble before, but I guess that makes sense if you compare the words duple and double to the pair triple and treble.
Of course, the higher numbers in the sequence then use the prefix for that number—quadruple, quintuple, sextuple, etc.
My guess is that the duple—triple series came from Latin directly into English, whereas the double—treble series was a gift of the French.
As for dual, it would appear that in English, at least, the term has always had a kind of philosophical meaning behind it…
dual
1607, from L. dualis, from duo "two." Dualism is first recorded 1794, from Fr. dualisme, in philosophical and theological senses. Duality is attested from c.1400.
[quote author=Tim Ward link=board=grammar;num=1117108961;start=0#4 date=05/28/05 at 09:58:57]I had never heard the "triple" meaning of treble before…
-Tim
It’s funny, but I had the opposite experience. Treble hooks were an integral part of my early childhood, but the treble clef didn’t begin to trouble me until I began taking music lessons as an adult.
Apparently, early western music had the soprano part as an accompaniment rather than the leading melodic line. As the third voice above the main tenor part, its clef was called "treble."
Nice brief historical recap, hcbowman. I pondered whether to go into that earlier, but having been bitten by the music bug long ago, I found the temptation too irresistable to keep it short and sweet once I had started, and decided to trash the whole effort.
As an aside, the notation we call a treble clef in music is also referred to as the G clef, as that is the pitch it marks on the staff:
duple & duplex
seem to be very specialized. Maybe their active use is permitted only to inventors and mathematicians, the man in the street exclusively repeating them with profound respect:
O5
duplex flat
duplex house
duplex communication
duple ratio
duple time
I think that the words we analyze are a distinct word class, which I would like to name quantum adjectives. It lies between numerals and ajectives, but expresses properties connected with low-level prime numbers: 1, 2, 3, ... Lifting by the number ladder makes the result more and more exotic.
Of course, treble clef is just an accidental guest in this thread. ‘Treble’ is not a real ajective, but a noun in another grammatical function. This noun meaning something far from numbers (a certain section of tonal range), nevetherless, possesses its own symbol shaped as a triple loop…
[quote author=yurifink link=board=grammar;num=1117108961;start=0#11 date=06/05/05 at 06:59:42] Of course, treble clef is just an accidental guest in this thread. ‘Treble’ is not a real ajective, but a noun in another grammatical function. This noun meaning something far from numbers (a certain section of tonal range), nevetherless, possesses its own symbol shaped as a triple loop…
Yuri, I wonder if your remark "accidental guest" was an intentional pun or an accidental one, itself!
You should refer to hcbowman‘s excellent little post:
[quote author=hcbowman link=board=grammar;num=1117108961;start=0#6 date=05/28/05 at 18:34:57]Apparently, early western music had the soprano part as an accompaniment rather than the leading melodic line. As the third voice above the main tenor part, its clef was called "treble."
The history of Western music theory progresses, from the earliest Gregorian chant days, from a one-line song—a single melody (tenor); to a two-line song—single melody with single harmony (tenor and altus, which was higher than the tenor and thus its name); to a three-line song—melody and two harmony lines (tenor, altus, and now sopranus, which was the highest line).
This third line was written on the treble clef, which indeed was different than the alto clef. Some instruments today still use the alto clef (namely, the viola and, I believe the alto clarinet).
Today, in choral (especially hymn) writing, it is common to join the female voices (alto and soprano lines) in the treble clef, while the male voices (tenor and bass lines) are written together on the bass clef.
Does either triple or treble mean grammatical number? Vaguely remember reading in an encyclopaedia that certain Polynesian languages recognises a group of three (or even four) as a grammatical category.
In linguistics, the trial grammatical number is a grammatical number referring to ‘three things’, as opposed to ‘singular’ and ‘plural’. Trial linguistic structures do not exist in English, nor do dual numbers. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_(grammatical_number)
Then the grammatical number for a group of four may be quattrial. My next question is if it is pronounced /treeal/ or the ubiquitous English diphthongisation confounds the word with "a judicial examination of issues between parties to an action."
