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Jelly/Jam
Posted: 04 August 2004 04:04 PM   [ Ignore ]
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I’ve always used jelly and jam as synonyms, but are they really?  I consulted my Merriam-Webster dictionary but the definitions it provided were the same to me and I wound up feeling that I knew even less than before I decided to pore over it.  Is there any difference in consistency, steps or ingredients that anybody knows of and can enumerate without too many technical details and such?

Thank you much

Brazilian dude

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Posted: 04 August 2004 09:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Well, my dear Brazilian, I am no expert in culinary aspects; but I’ll try to explain myself as I understand the terms. Let’s see whether I am of any help.

Jelly, "gelatina": quivering semi-solid stuff usually sold in powder packets to be mixed with water. It’s known for its peculiar consistence, strong enough to stand and support its own weight, but feeble nonetheless. When you taste or smash it, it quite acquires the aspect of "jam".

Jam "mermelada": simply, anything made mainly out of fruit that can be used upon a toast, that is, that you can easily spread with a knife.

Making a search here with "mermelada" I got 1."jelly (US)" and "marmalade" and 2. "jam". I would never call "mermelada" to "jelly"... Anyway, this yanks are crazy. ;D

Regards,

            WS.

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[I]Nuestras horas son minutos / cuando esperamos saber / y siglos cuando sabemos / lo que se puede aprender.[/I] Antonio Machado

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Posted: 04 August 2004 10:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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An obvious case of the difficulty of transferring notions between different cultures. It is difficult to maintain consistency, even within one language.

One consistency problem, occurring every year, is when I get a bottle of Swedish saft, according to dictionaries "fruit-syrup". Will it keep liquid, or will it turn into jelly?

Saft is an extremely common beverage on Sweden, especially for children. The (home made or commercial) fruit syrup is diluted, normally 1:4 to 1:8, and the resulting drink is often preferred to commercial bottled and carbonated fluids (not only by thrifty parents).

The jelly is clear to me: Fruit jelly is made from filtered juice, from cooking fruit like red or black currants with a fair amount of sugar. It has the Jell-O look. You can make meat jelly from bouillon and gelatine, which also will be rather clear and transparent. A rather Swedish speciality is rowanberry jelly, indispensable when serving game like deer.

Jams are more problematic, not only in printers. For translating a jam into Swedish, I probably would choose between [I]sylt[/I] or [I]marmelad[/I]. A Swedish marmelad may be made of most any kind of fruit or of other parts of plants; it is not restricted to citrus fruits. One of my favourites is home made rhubarb "marmelad"; ginger preserve with finely cut pieces of ginger may also be a "marmelad".

I think that there is a certain continuum between jam, marmalade and preserve. Some English jams and most preserves would be "sylt" to me; if they are solid enough to stay put on my breakfast sandwiches, I might call them "marmelad", especially if the fruits/berries/whatever are cut into small pieces. English "preserves" may resemble my "sylt", or they may be just "inläggningar", which includes pickles. "Konserver" for preserves is a very general term, applicable even to my childhood fascination, eggs stored in water glass (silicate of soda).

To add to the confusion, here are some excerpts from my Swedish-Portuguese dictionary:
sylt: doce, compota
syltgurka: pepinos de conserva
saft: xarope, sumo concentrado

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Posted: 05 August 2004 03:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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The way I see it:

Jelly (US) = Jam (UK)

Marmalade is the same as jam, but made with citrus fruits, traditionally eaten on toast but only at breakfast time. To add to the confusion, some jars of jam are labelled "jelly", even in the UK. I think this is when they are made in a particular way, with all the seeds, skin and any other solid material sieved out.

I think what the British normally call jelly the Americans would call Jell-O? Only ours comes in concentrated solidified rubbery blocks which have to be melted and dissolved in hot water, rather than in powder form. Of course jelly can have a more general meaning such as meat jelly, or any substance with a similar consistency.

Hope this helps, but I am open to correction, especially regarding my lack of jam-making knowledge.

JtW

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Posted: 05 August 2004 07:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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As usual, I’m in total agreement with Jonah :~)

Only problem is, I’ve now got the phrase "It must be jelly coz jam don’t wobble like that…" going through my head. Anybody know where that comes from? I have the feeling it’s some old blues song…

Ed

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Posted: 05 August 2004 08:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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OK! Built for comfort, not for speed…  :D

Thanks, KT.

Ed

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Posted: 05 August 2004 11:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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When making jam/marmalade from currants (red or black), I never add commercial pectin, unless the berries are over-ripe. For plum jam, I always do. The jam recipes of our grandmothers never contain pectin, and it seems that in those recipes, jam contains less sugar and the fruit is not very much cut, wile marmalades tend to use pulped fruit and more sugar, and often some lemon juice.

The high pectin content in currants is the reason why currant fruit syrup may turn to jelly in the bottles.

BTW, I think that many people associate food fibre with long, thin threads. Fact is, that the healthiest kinds of fibre are the jellying ones - like fruit pectin!

Any personal preferences aside, gelatine belongs to foodstuffs/eatables in Swedish law.

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Posted: 11 August 2004 09:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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It’s taken me a while, but my U.S. (Westcoast) Sunset cookbook called "Home Canning" says

Jams
Combinations of crushed or chopped fruit and sugar that are cooked to a fairly smooth consistency, thick enough to spread well . . . . Sometimes pectin and acid are added, depending on the fruit and the result desired.
Jellies
Fruit juices cooked with surgar.  Good jelly should have transparent , bright color.  When cut it quivers but holds its shape . . . . start by extracting the juice and then straining to make a clear and sparkling jelly . . . it is especially important to have the right proportions of sugar, fruit, pectin and acid
Preserves
Similar to jams, except that whole fruits or large pieces are used and . . . cooked  . . . [to] retain their shape
Marmalades
Soft jellies, usually containing thin suspended pieces of citrus peel or fruit
Conserves
Like jams, except that usually two or more fruits are cooked together.  Often . . . contain raisins or nuts
Butters
. . . fruit purees that are combined with sugar and cooked down slowly to a thick, spreading consistency . . . less sugar . . . and often spices are added

On Food and Cooking, The Science and Lore of the Kitchen by Harold McGee says

Preserves
[An] ancient technique for making plant foods, especially fruits, resistant to spoilage is to boost their sugar content to the point microorganisms will be dehydrated by osmotic pressure.
Variations are difficult to date . . . . According to Apicius, many foods, including meat, were preserved in honey in classical times.
Pectin Gels
Some fruits, including grapes and most berries, are rich enought in pectin to produce excellent gels on their own, while others, including apricot, peaches and strawberries need a supplemental source

A pectin mixture will gel only under certain conditions . . . . Making preserves is a tricky business because the necessary balance between pectin, acid, and sugar is a very delicate one . . . . a pH between 2.8 and 3.4, a pectin concentration of 0.5 to 1.0%, and a sugar concentration of 60 to 65% are generally optimal, but you would have to be cooking in a well-equiped laboratory to measure the first two conditions . . . . it seems much less surprising that some jams and jellies never gel at all, while others seize up into something resembling a gum eraser

As I know so well, about half the time my loquat jelly will not gel (so we call it "syrup").

And by the way, elsewhere Mr. McGee tells how tomatoes are a vegetable  due to a ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court.  Sometime in the early part of the last (20th) century someone wanted to avoid a duty imposed on imported vegetables by claiming that tomatoes are botanically fruits.  The Court said that for tax purposes, they are vegetables (in the U.S. only of course).

Bon Appetit, BNJTOKYO

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Posted: 11 August 2004 09:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Hey BNJ, as you are in the native land of the kudzu, you might be interested to know that in this area of the US, kudzu vines were planted decades ago as an experimental means of erosion control… Now one of my favorite jellies is KUDZU JELLY—made from the blossom, of course!

-Tim

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Posted: 23 August 2004 09:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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In the UK, we don’t use the word Jell-O. I think what Americans call Jell-O is always called jelly here. A lot of what would be called jelly in America is jam here. I’m not sure what the difference between jelly and jam is in America. A lot of British jams are not set. I sell my garden fruit to local jam maker who produces lovely runny jam full of large pieces of fruit. Marmalade, to me, always has rind in it, and is always made from citrus fruit - classically, the Seville orange.

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Posted: 24 August 2004 12:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Dear Garzo,

See above for the cookbook take on jam and jelly.

Jello and jelly are quite distinct.

Jello (probably trademarked) is a product that is made with gelatin—made I’m told from the hooves of dead cattle and horses—fruit flavorings and sugar.  Long the staple of school lunches, either as the salad course or the dessert.  It is nearly as hard for me to accept Jello as a dessert or salad as it is for me to accept Ronald Regan’s assertion that ketchup is a vegetable.

It is true jello is sweet, but it cannot be spread on toast or pancakes or on bread with peanut butter like jelly can.

Cheers, BNJTOKYO

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Posted: 24 August 2004 01:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Jello is *the* ubiquitious US hospital food. Perhaps to encourage people to quit loafing about after major surgery and get back to work?  :)
gailr
who, happily, has not had hospital jello since age 4.

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Posted: 24 August 2004 04:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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I was very fond of Jell-O for dessert when I was young. I thought it was completely banned by the Swedish FDA. I haven’t seen it for donkey’s years (perhaps because I haven’t been looking). It might be that only the reds and yellows were banned because of the azo colorants amarant (red) and tartrazine (yellow). They were suspected of causing allergies and/or hyperactivity in children.

Having written that, I find Swedish Internet Jell-O references, and going further, I see that the azo ban lasted from the 1970’s to 1999. Now, amarant may be used only in fish roe and in spirits; tartrazine only in cocktail cherries and in spirits. Another yellow-orange azo colorant, para-orange, may only be used in lumpfish roe and in spirits. I manage quite well without all of those.

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Posted: 24 August 2004 10:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Jello does make a wicked cool Halloween party treat. However, I would probably use one of these recipes. I’m just saying…  :D
gailr

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Posted: 24 August 2004 05:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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I was right: "Jell-o" is a trademark currently owned by Kraft Foods.  First use in commerce is 1897.  The owner of that registration was Genesee Pure Food Company

Kraft is now applying the mark to yogurt, pudding and "fruit flavored snacks" as well as the traditional product.

Cheers, BNJTOKYO

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Posted: 24 August 2004 09:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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So, Jell-O is a trademark. Everything that you have been describing as Jell-O is called jelly in British English. And most of what is described as ‘jelly’ is called ‘jam’. There are a few exceptions to this last one. If I was asked what bramble jelly was, I would reply that it is a jam. My dictionary lists Jell-O and jello as ‘Americanisms’.

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