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Posted: 08 April 2003 07:51 AM   [ Ignore ]
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I nominated this word before the Great Etherisation of January ‘03 and reading a recent interview with Professor Lawrence Lessig brought it back to mind.

it’s a polarising word that has been at the core of major conflict in our recent society and I am therefore gleeful at being able to renominate it today.

For those of you unfamiliar with Lessig’s work, I can highly recommend his The Future of Ideas [The Fate of the Commons in a Connected World] - a work that explores how the old (the elite in the seats of power) is seeking to destroy the new (the Internet and its empowerment technologies).

I thought it appropriate particularly in light of the closing paragraph in the interview vis-à-vis the rather critical tone of much of my writing on these fora:

"We live in a time when our culture is increasingly tone-deaf to legitimate criticisms around the world. If there’s ever a time when we have to open up the opportunity for people to be critical and spread their creative message it’s now. Yet, just at this time, there’s this copyright war that’s shutting down channels of communication in the name of defending property rights. But in defending those property rights what you’re also doing is disabling an extraordinary system of expression that could be doing our democracy an extraordinary bit of good."

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“Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.” - Aleister Crowley

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Posted: 08 April 2003 11:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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[quote author=ekkis link=board=wordsuggest;num=1049835068;start=0#0 date=04/08/03 at 16:51:08]I thought it appropriate particularly in light of the closing paragraph in the interview vis-à-vis the rather critical tone of much of my writing on these fora

???  I don’t understand how you relate criticism of your writing here with the intellectual property disputes to which Lessig refers…

-Tim

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For myself, I find I become less cynical rather than more… and realize that men’s hearts are not often as bad as their acts, and very seldom as bad as their words. - JRR Tolkien

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Posted: 08 April 2003 03:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Gosh, I guess I’m missing the point entirely.

Did you copyright your postings, ekkis? Not?

Personally, I don’t have a problem with copyright. As a Creative, I can think stuff up anytime. If some lawyer wants to copyright my stuff (and it happens) then fine. My comfort is that I can always think up more stuff. The lawyer can’t.

If Disney wants to kidnap Winnie the Pooh, that’s OK with me. I still know who wrote it. I still know who drew the original pictures. They’re both dead. The currently litigating great-grandchildren didn’t do either.

Let thoughts be free. Bugger the lawyers.

Again, just my opinion.

- PW

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Posted: 08 April 2003 04:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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greed:money::fear:anonymity

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Posted: 08 April 2003 04:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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greed:money::fear:anonymity

I’m not certain I understand that, but it looks interesting. Would you care to expand? Greed and money, I’m on board with. Fear:anonymity is what I’m wondering about.

- PW

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Posted: 08 April 2003 10:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Do I have a right to use or enjoy someone else’s creation?  

Only with the creator’s permission, which may or may not require a payment from me. And if the creator makes a deal with a third party assigning his/her rights to that party, so be it.  

There’s only one exception, and one proviso.  

The exception: If the creation becomes news, then naming or otherwise displaying the creation via news channels is legitimate. This includes "fair comment" in correspondence, reviews and, yes, posting in such fora as the Agora.

The proviso: I place creations into three categories.  

1. Trademarks, corporate names and the like, including texts, images, figures, etc., created for a company’s use, where the creation of texts, images and figures is not the company’s principal business.  
2. Artistic endeavors created only for esthetic or entertainment purposes, plus non-fiction texts written to inform or educate.  
3. Devices, materials, manufacturing processes, software and the like that are pragmatic in function and useful to society.  

The right to use a trademark, corporate name or other corporate materials should inhere to its owner in perpetuity. The Hudson’s Bay Company was founded in 1670, and remains in business to this day. Why should I ever have the right to trade under that name or otherwise use it?  

The right to charge a fee for the use or enjoyment of artistic endeavors, including literature, educational materials, all manner of the plastic arts, dance and music should remain with their creators. Different countries provide for varying times of protection, and there is legitimate argument as to when copyright on such works should expire.  

Pragmatic creations pose a different set of issues. Unquestionably, their creators should have the right to charge a fee for their use. Yet a moral issue creeps in: It may be acceptable to charge $25 per drug dose in a wealthy country, but how can such a charge be justified in the third world, where that sum might represent a month’s wages? In the developed world at least, pragmatic creations should be protected for a fixed term, one sufficiently long to provide a financial incentive to the creator, yet not so long as to dissuade others from providing healthy market competition. Here too there are legitimate arguments as to the appropriate length of such protection.  

I believe that in recent years a number of companies have patented molecules. In my view, this should not be permitted because molecules are, at least theoretically, able to come into being entirely by natural causes. What should be patentable is the process by which the molecule is made. If someone else can figure out a different way to make that molecule, more power to them. And the same principle should apply to gene splices and the like.  

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Posted: 11 April 2003 12:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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dammit, I just deleted what started out as a really good explanation and now I have to go to school.   :(

I promise I’ll get back to it, PW - just don’t have time like  used to

inanna

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Posted: 11 April 2003 02:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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[quote author=Palewriter link=board=wordsuggest;num=1049835068;start=0#4 date=04/09/03 at 01:25:55]
Greed and money, I’m on board with. Fear:anonymity is what I’m wondering about.

- PW

It was a nebulous thought to begin with (otherwise I probably would have expanded on it right then).  

What I was trying to suggest is just that I saw a similarity in the relationships between the two sets of words:  a person overcome by fear (of you-name-it) might not take the necessary risks to achieve recognition.  Someone with notoriety/fame might be fearful of the opposite.  

Huh.  Maybe the better analogy would have been simply
greed:money::conceit:fame

Oh well. I guess I’m not much good for deep insightful thoughts anymore.  It’s all going into my studies.  I want to be able to consider these kinds of discussions as part of my studies; they are inasmuch as I am inspired to learn things I might not otherwise.  It’s just that I’m paying for school!  

inanna

By the way, PW, I got a B+ on that paper, which I thought was justifiable.  I had to let go of perfection last term - too many classes.

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Posted: 11 April 2003 02:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Congrats on the B+ on the article, which I enjoyed thoroughly. I, too, have been distracted of late, having had to work 160+ hours over the past fortnight. Advertising can be something of a Moloch of a business sometimes.

Anyhow. I think I see your point. The SAS motto is "Who dares, wins." Would that be close?

- PW


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Posted: 11 April 2003 03:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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[quote author=Palewriter link=board=wordsuggest;num=1049835068;start=0#9 date=04/11/03 at 23:43:49]Congrats on the B+

Thank you.  Though I must admit it a matter of personal principle to get straight A’s, which I would have but for that class.

SAS  

Society of Albanian Sousaphonists?  ;D

yes, the motto is apt.  I just realized that my thought in my first post was meant as a sort of underscoring of what you said about being able to think up new stuff whenever.  I think copyrighting gets out of hand when people fear that 1) they’ll never think of anything again and 2) they want to be famous

I would like to be a composer, but I do so much improvising I often feel like it’s just unnecessary to write music down; I’ll think of something new and as good or better tomorrow.  Hence jazz, where you are supposed to do that!  What if we all copyrighted our solos?  What a world it would be. wink

inanna

 

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Posted: 13 April 2003 12:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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[quote author=Inanna link=board=wordsuggest;num=1049835068;start=0#10 date=04/12/03 at 00:45:26]I would like to be a composer, but I do so much improvising I often feel like it’s just unnecessary to write music down; I’ll think of something new and as good or better tomorrow.  Hence jazz, where you are supposed to do that!  What if we all copyrighted our solos?  What a world it would be. wink

[soapbox]

Here I feel the need to explain to the rest of you out there (in here?) that the creative world of jazz represents what much of the world of Classical music of the pre-19th century was like.  I have continued to find dark irony in the fact that the emotion-laden, let-it-all-out world of the Romantic era is also responsible for the general public concept of what Classical music—i.e., performances, for the public and for each other as musicians—and its vast realm of publication should be: performances of works that are etched in stone.

Sure, composers published their works in those pre-Romantic eras.  But they also improvised and extemporaneously performed various works, short and long, simple and complex, for audiences all over Europe.

I could rant about this for a long time…

[/soapbox]

-Tim

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For myself, I find I become less cynical rather than more… and realize that men’s hearts are not often as bad as their acts, and very seldom as bad as their words. - JRR Tolkien

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Posted: 13 April 2003 03:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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must…resist…..soap…box…nnngh….

inanna

who really does improvise her own cadenzas in Haydn concertos thankyouverymuch

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Posted: 15 April 2003 02:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Unusually on topic for me, but…

I heard on the news today that Sony is attempting to trademark "Shock and Awe" for its Playstation product line.

I’m considering applying for a trademark for "Surprise and Dismay".

- PW
 

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Posted: 16 April 2003 12:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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[quote author=Palewriter link=board=wordsuggest;num=1049835068;start=0#14 date=04/15/03 at 23:18:54][center]...[/center] I’m considering applying for a trademark for "Surprise and Dismay".

Why not just

«Bombs away !»

which is shorter and simpler (two words, instead of three) ?...

Henri

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Posted: 16 April 2003 02:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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[quote author=M._Henri_Day link=board=wordsuggest;num=1049835068;start=15#15 date=04/16/03 at 09:31:44]
Why not just
which is shorter and simpler (two words, instead of three) ?...

Henri

Indeed. Or simply "duck" (one word, instead of two)

wink

- PW

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Posted: 16 April 2003 03:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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[quote author=Palewriter link=board=wordsuggest;num=1049835068;start=15#16 date=04/16/03 at 11:18:53] ... Or simply "duck" (one word, instead of two) wink

But think of the ambiguities !...

Henri

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